The Big Impression

Stellantis’ CMO Raj Register talks about building consistent storytelling across channels, what she’s learning from AI and why she’s obsessed with connecting marketing action to tangible business outcomes. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

This week we're delighted to talk with Raj Register, the Senior Vice President and CMO for North America at Stellantis, one of the biggest names in the global auto industry.

Damian Fowler (00:19):

That's right. Stellantis is the powerhouse behind iconic brands like Jeep, Dodge, Ram, Chrysler, and so many more.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:26):

And as our North American fans may be well aware, stellantis just ran off one but two high profile spots at the Super Bowl in February, both featuring major celebs,

Damian Fowler (00:37):

Glenn Powell as Goldlock in the Ram Super Bowl commercial, and Harrison Ford who rarely appears in ads starring in the Jeep commercial.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:45):

Let's get started.

Damian Fowler (00:51):

The first thing I want to ask you, Raj, is how did it all come together?

Raj Register (00:55):

Yeah, that's a great question and not the most straightforward way that many would think. So at Stellantis we have something called a jump ball. And Jump ball basically means that we curate several agencies and we allow them to pitch and based on the pitch how we brief them and whoever comes up with the best idea pretty much wins the business. So for this past Super Bowl, we spoke to around 35 plus agencies and we were able to round them out to the best two, one for Ram, one for Jeep. So we go through several rounds of creative, we determine what's the best story, how does it really relate to our business? And from my perspective it was what's the best creative outside of that? Then what's the best thing that will help give us more runway past the Super Bowl? So outside of the creative is the business aspect and how are we going to perform and make sure that it delivers upon all of our goals.

Damian Fowler (01:56):

Now everyone knows, I guess at this point that the Super Bowl ad spot is one of the most coveted in the world and one of the most pricey I suppose. But wanted to ask you why was it important for Stellantis? I mean, you're the only order maker as I understand it, to have a spot during the game this year. Why was it important for you?

Raj Register (02:14):

There's a lot of dialogue around why were we the only one. I saw it as an incredible opportunity for us to be auto exclusive. When do you get to do that? During Super Bowl? It was really important for us to show up, not only to show that we're here, not only are we American born and we are proud of our brands, but when we think of everything we have to offer to our consumers, we wanted to leverage this as an opportunity to tell that story and give them an indication of who we are. And it was almost like a reintroduction back to America as well as supporting our UAW workers, supporting our dealers, supporting our employees. So I think it was a rally cry for us to just let everyone know that we're here and we're here to stay.

Ilyse Liffreing (02:58):

That's awesome. And such terrific actors in both of the commercials, Glenn Powell and Harrison Ford, and I feel like they speak to definitely different generations obviously of fans and types of moviegoers potentially. What were the main challenges of securing the talents?

Raj Register (03:16):

Gosh, so Glenn Powell, so we already have an established relationship with him for Ram. He did a really nice job with us for our integration that we had with Twisters. And so for him it was more of a natural fit. He has this serious nature, but he's also very funny. And so when we came up with the idea of Cody Lakson the Three Bears and using that old American fairytale to help bring to life something really cool and unique glim, I mean it was like a no-brainer, like let's extend this relationship because he's easy to work with, but then also he brings a lot to the table to help us with bringing things to life. So he was very involved with making sure that our script and how things showed up were authentic to him. But then also because he knows us as a brand, he knew certain things to lean into.

(04:03):

So he was a really good partner in that way. Harrison Ford was a lot more difficult for us to secure. So quite frankly, and if you've looked at any of the behind the scenes that were done, Harrison talked about his first answer was No, Olivier and a group of us went back and he started with a different script, one that paid homage to Harrison Ford, but then also related to us as a brand and the freedom of America. And so once we were able to align on the idea and have a script that Harrison actually reacted to in a positive way, he actually reviewed it with his wife and she said, now that's good. Then it was a matter of, okay, well who's the director who could work with him and make sure that this comes to life in the way that he's proud of as well as us? We tap James Mango and that was incredible. So they already have a really good relationship. Mango did four versus Ferrari, so he has this really extensive background in movies, but for commercials, this was, I believe it was his first one. And so just balancing the star power of Harrison, Mangold and Olivier, it was like the trifecta of greatness I would say. But it took a while for us to get to where we needed to be. We shot our Super Bowl at three weeks before,

Ilyse Liffreing (05:24):

Which that is a tight turnaround.

Raj Register (05:27):

It's a lot of pressure, but being on set and getting everything together, Harrison was amazing, but that one was definitely a day by day, how are we going to get this done? And just making sure that he felt comfortable with the commercial and it came out better than I could have expected. But that one definitely was a challenge, but in a good way.

Damian Fowler (05:48):

And it's interesting to note that Harrison rarely does commercials, so it was an amazing coup for you to get

Ilyse Liffreing (05:53):

Him. Totally. And yeah, it's great that it came, but it's also a great example of the brand campaign overall because it's the power of choice and why was this the right message for the moment?

Raj Register (06:08):

Yeah, so just to clarify, so power of choice was our Ram ad and freedom of choice was our G ad. And so the reason why we chose those bookends of power and freedom one is it's the breadth and the quilt of America being able to make a choice and be happy and stand up for whatever it is that you want or whatever you believe in. The other part was is as we think about the way the automotive business is changing, there's a lot of energy around what type of vehicle should you choose? And our stance at Stellantis is, one, we want you to love our brands and our vehicles first, and then you make a choice as far as what platform or what energy you want. In both commercials we were able to highlight our ice vehicles, which is our gas hybrid and all electric.

(07:04):

With that being said, it's hey, making a choice should be fun. There's a lot of negative feedback around Bev versus not, or should you have a gas vehicle versus not. And for us it's you have the freedom or power to choose the vehicle that's best for you, and we want to make sure that you make a choice with us and giving customers the education of we are a company for a person like you and we just want you to choose with us. And so that was the premise of it and we were able to do it on one end very humorously. And the other was more around the freedom and pride of being American and being able to make a decision for yourself.

Damian Fowler (07:43):

Now, one of the most interesting things about the Super Bowl this year was that it was also streamed on Tubi, which is Fox's fast channel. And I wanted to get into this in terms of the campaign. How did you think about and come up with a digital strategy around that that goes beyond the second quarter ad?

Raj Register (08:03):

Yeah, so I'll just say even for the day of, it was interesting because being at Super Bowl, I got a chance to see what was happening on the two B app and really being able to just see the integration and being able to not only see our ad live, but also our halftime show. So that was incredible to see live TV while you're on the spot because it's a different experience. What consumers see at home is not the same as what you see in the stadium. The important thing for us was leveraging all opportunities from TV to streaming to social, to tell a complete story. And we want it to be just, okay, here's the TV spot and move on. How can we leverage other avenues to make sure that our story is getting out there and then continuing the story with our consumers or those that are interested in learning more. Yeah, there's a group that are watching on TV or in a environment where they're in a sports bar or something like that, but you also have these other group of customers that are watching on their phones. And so that's why it was important for us to leverage all avenues and all media channels to make sure that our collective 360 story was getting out there.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:11):

Totally. Did you know that it was going to be streamed on Tubi when you first made the buy?

Raj Register (09:17):

No, we didn't. And so I learned when I was in the suite with Fox Sports, and so they came and said, Raj, you can see everything live and here's how everything works. And so I had everything set up and it was really nice to see. So I was trying to balance be here in the moment, but then I was enthralled by Tubi and so throughout breaks and things like that, I was very much so engaged. So it was a surprise and delight for me and something that I'll definitely continue to leverage as we look at our media buying practices in the future.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:49):

Totally makes sense. Curious about how those overall numbers added to the results of the Super Bowl spots. And on that note, let's get into those results with the overall takeaway. First off, what was the reaction to the campaign overall?

Raj Register (10:04):

That one, we did something a little bit different than we typically do. So what we have normally done is Super Bowl is the coveted day. We don't do teasers as a company. Everyone sees it at the same time and it's under lock and key. And we tried something a bit different this year. So for Ram, we created some teasers and so we went live with our teasers a week before Super Bowl, and then on the Wednesday before we had an opportunity with the Today Show to show the entire commercial and really start some of the excitement and engagement before Super Bowl. From a press standpoint, the world knew or people knew that we would have a Jeep spot and we kept up with our previous practice of everything's under embargo, so no one knew that one, we had Harrison Ford or we had a two minute spot.

(10:56):

And so it was a complete really surprise to most people. And so to have that go live during the Super Bowl itself, I mean that just took off from a social sentiment standpoint. Me being a former Ford employee, I got so many text messages because the last line where Harrison talks about loving his Jeep even though his name is Ford, that was quite the zinger. And so everything that we've seen so far has been overwhelmingly positive. Positive sentiment for Jeep was 99%, and for Ram it was 98%. From a global PR standpoint, over 10 billion for ram, we had over 200 million views for Jeep, over 106 million views on social channels. So many recognition and rewards. Ad blitz was one where we were number one spot for Jeep, and so they just keep coming in. And so those are the things that you know, did the right thing.

Ilyse Liffreing (11:52):

Yeah, those are fantastic numbers.

Damian Fowler (11:54):

Amazing. I guess it's fair to say you hit your metrics for success

Raj Register (11:58):

For game day and right after. So another thing that we did differently this time is that we have usage rights for 90 days after Super Bowl, so it wasn't just a day of and done. We're leveraging the content for some localized messaging. We leveraged our websites CRM and really doing a complete 360 after the fact. So we'll have a postmortem after the 90 days of our campaign, which is something very different for us. And having cut downs and really being able to support more product and storytelling key, why buy messaging? And it's something that I think will be pivotal for us as a company and really set the stage for how we do things in the future.

Damian Fowler (12:42):

I'd love to zoom out a little bit. You have many iconic brands on your watch, not just Jeep and Ram, Dodge Chrysler and also European brands too. I wanted to ask you though, how do you balance your marketing across so many different brand identities while also sort of keeping in-house that cohesive idea of strategy for the whole company?

Raj Register (13:05):

At a company Stellantis where you have essentially a house of brands, you have the very all American Chrysler, Dodge, Ram G brands, and then Alpha Mayo and Fiat, each brand has its own DNA. And that's how I see it is the DNA is what sets the stage for the fabric of how that vehicle or how that brand should show up. And we need to be tried and true to that. Many times we get ideas and an agency may pitch us and it might be a great idea and say for example, they pitch us for Chrysler and it comes across as Dodge. I say that's a great idea, but it's very dodge, it's very brotherhood, badass speed power for Chrysler, more of the family with Pacifica and capability and off-road with Jeep and Ram also having capability. It's the only brand that has, and basically in the world that only does pickup trucks.

(14:03):

And so when you think of all those things, each brand has its own identity, and so you don't have to mix and match things. As individuals, we have our own personalities and as families, we have our own DNA. That's how I see the brands. And so that part to me is fairly easy to really just understand and make sure that there's clear lines of delineation. When I think of marketing though, there's best practices and there's things as a company that we know to be true. When we think about, for me, I have things that are considered either above the line or below and just really understanding what investment, what media channels, what optimization, what tactics are necessary for us to be successful with a particular nameplate or launch. And ensuring that I have a complete cohesive plan and really establishing what are my KPIs and goals and things that I need to make sure that I'm accomplishing.

(14:58):

If there's something that needs to be communicated and it falls below the line where we have maybe digital only or we're doing only experiential, really understanding what are my priorities, what am I trying to deliver upon? And then holding true to that. So as a company, having marketing rigor and expertise around what it is that we really need to establish as far as a North star. And then also working with our brand heads on does this meet the brand? DNA does it meet our customer goals? Does it meet our key why buys? And then you move forward. And so a lot of things we do are collaboratively. So it's not the marketing team on our own just driving things and bringing things out the door. It's how are we establishing what's necessary for us to be successful? And at the end of the day, it is about sales and share and making sure that we have a positive sentiment in the market and people are shopping us.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:54):

Speaking about shopping and digital, today's consumers are really omnichannel in their approach to shopping. How has that shift really impacted marketing in the auto sector? Is AI and automation having an impact on that approach?

Raj Register (16:12):

So I would say I don't know if AI necessarily has an impact as a compliment. And so what AI does, and when you think of omnichannel, it allows us to do things faster, more agile, more targeted, more regional focused. And so when I think of how customers consume things many times it takes them seeing something in many different places and how are we collectively telling a story and really understanding what part of the funnel are we leveraging, what channel for and ensuring that we're doing it in the most authentic way that is not overbearing to someone that's receiving it. But to me I see it as how are we taking them down the funnel? So if on TV I'm leveraging a brand campaign for excitement and engagement, but then when a customer sees a similar ad or a version of it at the digital level where they're now as a call to action where we're saying, Hey, learn more, there's a call to action for either building price or learning more about our features and options.

(17:17):

And then when you get to the deal level, allowing them to be the closer of the play. And so all of these things should be, as I said, in compliment with one another. Whenever we create something, we leverage AI to help us with not only creating faster content in a way that gives us that agility, but then we also use it for our data and our forecasting for our modeling and how are we leveraging our media channels, and then also how are things performing and then helping set the stage for, well, you did this component very well, how do you go deeper in a particular audience or market to help establish what success really looks like? And so I think AI is very complimentary in a positive way to really help establish not only from a content perspective, but when you think about performance, it definitely helps guide it from a forecast standpoint what we should expect or how we should leverage certain investments.

Ilyse Liffreing (18:18):

Certainly, and it's hard enough obviously to differentiate the brands from each other and keep true to their own brand guidelines, but as a marketer, you have to also differentiate your brands from competitors like GM and Ford and Tesla. What shapes basically your approach to that,

Raj Register (18:43):

The brand, DNA, when you have that and it's rooted in everything you do, we don't have to worry about looking or sounding like someone else because we know who we are. And that when you have that as your true north is very easy to really understand who you are and where you show up. Now when I think of brand health and brand sentiment and things that we need to listen to customers on, so for example, if we have feedback that's saying our brand is beloved, but customers don't understand our features and technology or they don't understand capability or they don't understand certain components, we use that as data to help us with our storytelling, especially at the tier two and retail level, to really start leaning into things that maybe we're missing the boat on, especially if it's something that we believe is a key factor as to a why buy. But when I think of a Tesla or a Ford or a gm, they have their own brand identities as well. And so trying to chase or be them is not the answer. Many of our brands have been in place for decades. I mean, Chrysler will be coming up on its hundredth anniversary at this point. We know who we are. And holding true to that I think is the most important thing you can ever do as a brand and as a marketer.

Damian Fowler (20:07):

I love that answer. When you know who you are, that's what you lean on. And I think that goes for individuals too in lots of ways. Not to get too psychological about this, but it is a true, it's true. Yeah, it's true. I know that there's a question here about, and maybe that's the answer to this next question, but when things are changing, big picture, macro conditions, global economy, which has a big impact on the auto industry, how do you as a marketer stay focused?

Raj Register (20:35):

Yeah, and that's an interesting question because when you think of macroeconomic factors, it can be competitive actions. It could be things like tariffs. There's all these things that you need to take into consideration. And the things that we can control, the controllables, I always make sure I understand what those things are. The things that I can't control are the things that I consider noise, meaning there's disruption and people don't like Stellantis because of X, Y, and Z, or this decision was made, we had a lot of leadership change over, we can't digest all of that. And so what I try to do is make sure that whatever plan is done soundly, it's inclusive of any key stakeholders that are necessary to help us make whatever decision it is that we're going to market with. And then also having consistency. And so yes, there's external things that we need to have into consideration, but if we run our business and change day by day, fly by fly, we'll be a weather report. We won't be able to really hold true. So for me, having consistency and sticking to a plan, now you need to have some agility in there to account for things that are more major. But when I think of major versus minor, I try to keep the minors at bay plan for the majors as much as I can, but then hold true. The more you're consistent and the more you have a plan that you stick to, the better success you have.

Ilyse Liffreing (22:08):

So it said marketing is a balance between art and science. Do you agree?

Raj Register (22:14):

A thousand percent. A thousand percent. So when I think of art and science one, that's my background. So I have an engineering background, very much science. And then when you have the marketing piece, there is science there, but there's a lot of art. And when you bridge the two together and you know how to yin and yang the two, it works. While I love data, I love to make sure that things are technically sound. I also recognize that there's art in here that you can never discount. And so I think it's an important balance to respect both parts of it. And when you're able to marry the two together, that's where I think the magic happens.

Damian Fowler (22:54):

What are you obsessed with figuring out right now?

Raj Register (22:57):

I'm obsessed with figuring out modernization of marketing. And when I say that it's what are the disruptive things that are not necessarily on the map? So we have a voiceover talent that we use for G, and this is a recognizable voice, and we've used this same individual for over a decade. He got into a car accident and his vocal cords were damaged, we had a decision to make. It's going to be a different voice that we maybe don't want to necessarily use. This wasn't the decision, or could we leverage technology using AI to recreate his voice, get him into an agreement, still going to compensate and all of those things. But how do we continue with ensuring that there's a human part of this? We use the technology, but we were able to still move ourselves forward. And so that's an example for me of I'm obsessed with how do you create opportunities? And again, it goes to the art and science to create things that may be a challenge that you can fix quickly, or are there things that I'm not thinking about that are very different and disruptive that I can start grounding myself on today because it's going to be even more relevant in five years.

Ilyse Liffreing (24:20):

What if you had an unlimited budget? What would be your marketing dream? What would you do

Raj Register (24:27):

If I had an unlimited budget? Really being able to establish a true footprint that gave true indication of what things are necessary for all consumers, whether they're African-American, Hispanic women, millennials, whoever it is, being able to create very bespoke one-to-one communications for them at the stage and at the channel that they need to make a decision. I think being able to create something like that and really understanding what's necessary, what drives someone, and then being able to truly correlate a marketing action with a true business sale impact, whatever the call to action is, I think it would be huge. Right now, we guess we say, okay, there's all these things. They clicked on an ad, they did X, Y, and Z, but we don't always know, especially for a big purchase for online things, that's easier to track. But when I think of true decision making, what are the things that really triggers individuals to make a choice and be able to correlate it to business results, I think is something that I've not yet seen done. And if I were to be able to crack that code, I'd be winning. So I think that's limitless.

Damian Fowler (25:50):

So Eli, what were your kind of thoughts off the back of it?

Ilyse Liffreing (25:54):

Yeah, I really liked how she talked about consistency, especially being a brand that is so prevalent in today's culture. She said, the more you're consistent, the better for customers because customers can see if you're not. Basically, she said, if we change every day, we're just going to be like a weather reports.

Damian Fowler (26:15):

That was very grounding. And I think when you talk about omnichannel campaigns and you think about the consistency of the brand across all of those channels, that's got to be a huge factor. The thing that resonates with me about that too is the fact that she talked about the DNA of each brand in her portfolio, whether it be Ram or Jeep, and just knowing that that was kind of a revelation to me. You can lean back on that idea. And I thought that kind of idea of when you know who you are, things are easy at is easier. So that was something that really stuck with me. And then there was one other thing she said that clarity of thought when she said it's what now, so what? Now what? And I just thought that was a really nice way of structuring the way a marketing campaign might be planned and then how it might roll out.

Ilyse Liffreing (27:03):

I also liked how she talked about the balance between art and science, whether data only tells us so much, but you got to lean into things with your heart as well.

Damian Fowler (27:10):

Hearts and minds, right? That's the old adage.

Ilyse Liffreing (27:13):

That is. That's it for this edition of the current podcast.

Damian Fowler (27:19):

This series is produced by Molten Hart. The Current Podcast theme is by loving caliber, and The Current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns.

Raj Register (27:26):

And remember the brand DNA. When you have that and it's rooted in everything you do, we don't have to worry about looking or sounding like someone else because we know who we are.

Damian Fowler (27:39):

I'm Ilyse, I'm Damian, and we'll see you next time.

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Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Kat Vesce (00:00):

I'm Kat Vesce. And I'm Ilyse Liffreing and welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. In honor of International Women's Day and Women's Month, we're spotlighting trailblazing women in marketing at this year's South by Southwest.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:16):

For this episode, we're excited to be joined by Erica Taylor, vice president and chief marketing Officer at Genentech, a company at the forefront of biotech innovation for over 40 years.

Kat Vesce (00:28):

Erica has a unique background transitioning from a PhD in immunology and a product development into the world of marketing, bringing a scientific perspective to how Genentech connects with global healthcare providers and patients.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:41):

We'll dive into how that background informs her approach to marketing, the game changing campaign she's led, and how the biotech industry is evolving to embrace more creative, emotionally driven storytelling.

Kat Vesce (00:54):

Plus Erica will share her perspective on how women in STEM can break barriers and what the future of healthcare marketing holds. Let's get started.

Ilyse Liffreing (01:01):

So Erica, thanks for being here at South by Southwest. Thanks for having me. Of course. So you have a unique background for a CMO growing part of your career on the product development side of biotech. After earning your PhD from Stanford Medical School, what drew you to the marketing side of biotech and why don't we see more medical students transition into heading up marketing departments?

Erica Taylor (01:25):

Yeah, I sometimes think that I have the habit of just showing up in places I'm not supposed to be, and so I certainly didn't go into my studies in immunology with the idea that I was going to end up in marketing. I would've never have thought that that would be the case. It really sort of became apparent to me that I was very much interested in the intersection of business and science when I was nearing the end of my graduate program, but I wasn't really sure how to do that or how to get there. So I explored a lot and I often share when I do development conversations with folks in the industry that I've probably not gotten more jobs than I've gotten in my life trying to figure out how to be in these other spaces. But for me, the journey really started in consulting.

(02:07):

I was in management consulting for biotech and pharma industry, and that is what led me to Genentech. And at my career there I have had roles in analytics and in sales, and it was probably my time in sales that really got me interested in marketing. And so I was able to sort of land a role in marketing and to do so at a company that innovates on science. I think they were able to sort of see, okay, she maybe doesn't have a background in marketing, but she understands the science, she understands how to communicate it and what actually moves markets when you're in the sales field.

Ilyse Liffreing (02:38):

How has that background informed your approach as a CMO? Why is that scientific medical knowledge and maybe even sales knowledge so valuable?

Erica Taylor (02:48):

Yeah, I think one of the things that was a bit of an aha for me in my sales role was I'll say one of the most professionally transformative experiences I had, which is code for saying it was the hardest thing I've ever done. And you learn a lot about what actually motivates people in the decisions that they make. And marketing is really focused on influencing a decision that people make and you realize even though I have a background in science and people very much need to understand why they're making the decision they're making. If you're a provider making a prescribing decision or a patient choosing between options for medicines available to you, you need to understand the why of that. But really there has to be some kind of emotional pull there. And I was really fascinated with that because I sort of come from a very cerebral training of like, well, we've got this data and here are the patients for which benefit the most, and so therefore this is the natural conclusion of the decision you would make. In fact, it's far more complex than that and it's that complexity of human behavior that I got really interested in as I grew in the marketing organization. So I try to bring both the left and right brain such as it were to that thinking.

Kat Vesce (03:53):

As the best marketers do. We ask everyone this question, I want to go a little bit deeper. Is there a specific moment that changed the game for you as a marketer? Tell us your most defining career moment or pivot to date and what the obstacles were there.

Erica Taylor (04:10):

Yeah, I could probably name a few. I get the most depth in moments and insights when I actually get to interact with patients and with providers and sort of understand deeply their experiences. And one of the ahas that I got actually both in my sales and then later in my marketing role is that yes, Genentech, you guys have been trailblazing and biotech and you have been innovating, but the data is so complex even though I'm trained in this field with the patient loads that I see every day, I don't have time and you guys don't make it simple for us. And so the aha there is like, okay, then marketing campaigns have to really focus on taking very complex science, which I feel fortunate to understand, but boil it down to something that's very simple, that's very memorable. And the same for patients. Very often when I'm in conversations with providers, I have the patient in mind when I'm thinking about how I would want this medicine explained to me, and that is how I explain it to the provider thinking maybe if a couple of my phrasing or words sort of land, well then that's what gets repeated to the patient so that they understand the choices that they have before them.

Kat Vesce (05:17):

I love that. And as a biotech company now over 40 years old, how would you say your approach to campaign strategy differs from typical healthcare campaigns?

Erica Taylor (05:25):

Yeah, well for one,

Kat Vesce (05:26):

A little bit of that patient in mind.

Erica Taylor (05:28):

Yeah, the patient for sure in mind. And one of the things that I'm very happy to spearhead as the chief marketing officer is really thinking about how do we make that more and more personal? It's not the patient, it is the patient that may be a single parent that lives 45 minutes from their local healthcare system. How do I speak to that patient just as much as I speak to the patient that has a high powered career and really doesn't have the time to focus on themselves and needs something to be quick and convenient? And so really the opportunity before us is to figure out how to become more nuanced, relevant and personalized when we tell the stories of our medicines. What I love about Genentech and our ability to do that is we've always been focused on two things, patience and science. And as long as we keep those two centered in everything that we do, I think we're able to kind of meet that mark.

(06:14):

Maybe the other thing I'll add, because the idea of speaking in personalized ways is not new. It's not rocket science, it's not even the more complex things that we do, but the technology and the capabilities that exist maybe outside of healthcare are now being applied in our space. And so very excited about what things like generative AI can do for us and really being able to personalize our stories around our medicines and our development. But at scale, we market over 40 medicines, and so it's great to do this in one or two places, but imagine doing that across the full breadth of our portfolio.

Kat Vesce (06:47):

And I imagine that 40 medications or medicines times however many profiles fit the many faces of patients.

Erica Taylor (06:57):

Exactly.

Kat Vesce (06:58):

Yeah, you really need some automation there.

Erica Taylor (07:00):

Absolutely. The scale of the problem is impossible, and unless I'm getting sort of a complete blank check to build all the resources that I need, we've got to find ways to be more efficient with that.

Ilyse Liffreing (07:09):

So that has really got me thinking because as much as the customer is number one and everything, but you also have to speak to the provider and they're the ones who are going to be really selling your medicine to the patient themselves. How do you solve, I guess, for your need to resonate with both the customer provider and then who would you consider highest priority in those campaigns?

Erica Taylor (07:34):

No, it's a really, really great question. One of the things that I love about the healthcare space is that your decision maker and your end user are almost never the same person. And that's not totally unique. It's uncommon. But you could imagine parents buying baby formula are also decision makers, but generally not. And users, unless you were like me and got desperate and ran out of half and half and put baby formula in, coffee works great. Extra nutrients. Exactly. Yeah, life hack. So it's not totally unique, but you have to kind of speak to two audiences. So because of the breadth of our portfolio, we really do think about this disease state by disease state. So there are some disease states where really the provider is the driving decision maker. Examples of this can be if you're having a stroke and you're in the hospital, you're probably not deciding between which medications are right for now, you're really driven by the provider's decision maker.

(08:31):

You can think about that in some of our later line cancer portfolios. When you're in your past, your first two lines of treatment, you're really going to be relying on your provider to understand what are the next, so in those cases, we tend to focus more on the provider and the prescribing decision maker. There are other parts of our portfolio where it's really very much patient driven. We have a medicine that treats food allergy, and that really then tends to involve in some cases, adolescents, their parents. And so we really need to elevate their voices when we're thinking about how we make sure they have the right information. So it really can span the gamut, and it's about taking a specific view of that particular disease state and how decision-making is made.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:09):

That's amazing. Now the biotech category is not known for being exactly sexy when it comes to creative marketing. It's bogged down with side effects and similar storylines usually. How are you guys moving the needle in terms of creating those powerful maybe storytelling campaigns?

Erica Taylor (09:30):

Yeah, I mean, we are a regulated industry and I'll state first. It's actually really important that we give that information. Any medicine that anyone is going to take, you have to weigh the benefits and the risks, and it is on us to communicate that fairly. And so I very much stand behind that. As a scientist, we really have to do that, but that can also make it really hard to know what's what we're trying to do this. So for me, I always try to root in the emotion and what I tell my teams all the time at the end of everything we do is someone who is sick and scared and how do we really tap into that? What do they need in that moment of diagnosis? What do they need in that moment when they're a week out from treatment and they're not really sure if what they're experiencing is normal?

(10:14):

Really kind of capturing those moments along the patient's journey. And similarly for the provider's journey, if I were to be oversimplified providers saying 15, 20 patients a day, how do we find ways to make their challenging lives as easy as possible, as simple as possible? And so we kind of think of that almost in two tracks. Some of the best creative that I see really speaks to that emotion. We did a campaign in our ophthalmology franchise last year called A Beautiful Site, which really chronicles a parent watching their child go through the education and then that parent one day becoming a patient. And it's really a motive. We actually don't talk a ton about the medicine itself, but more the experience of what it's like when you're struggling with your eyesight and it's gotten a lot of traction just by speaking to that lived experience.

Kat Vesce (11:03):

We're going to shift the conversation and zoom out a little bit.

Erica Taylor (11:05):

Okay.

Kat Vesce (11:05):

Though biotech is not new by any means, the category was catapulted into the spotlight in mainstream media during the height of COVID-19 something very intimately a thing or two. Yes. Yeah. Gilead at the time, you saw this firsthand with your previous role. And tell us a little bit about that experience. What do you think has changed for the industry as a whole since then?

Erica Taylor (11:27):

Oh wow. So many things. I had so many reactions kind of experiencing as we all did. The sort of the Covid Ovid 19 crisis, the first among them is that science really became front and center. And as a scientist, I get excited, finally, we're getting the credit we deserve, but so much about it was what I understand is science. Science is slow and painstaking. It's a step forward, it's a step to the right, it's a step back. It's two steps forward. That is how science happens. The lay public for the most part just sees it at the end. And so you get to tell this story, but that's not actually how it went down. Think about your vaccines for things like polio. We weren't following the day to day of that. We just had it. And we go, great. That's wonderful science. So when looking through the vaccine development for Covid, we're kind of watching day by day, is it six feet?

(12:17):

What kind of mask? How do I do this? And so we got, I think people lost trust in science and that really was heartbreaking because that's actually how it is. And for me it's the resilience of the people that continue to pursue when you get up and the thing you thought was going to work didn't work today, and you get up tomorrow and go do it. And we were able to break through in that way. That's the one thing on the science side, on the marketing side, we now know names of biotech companies. No one generally does know that I get true. My branded medication, I get this branded, that branded medication. Now the names of the companies that produced the vaccines, you would go in and say, I want the Moderna one or the Pfizer one. That has never really happened before in our industry.

(13:03):

And we've had to go from being a sort of what I'll call a house of brands, the branded medication, to really thinking about, well, what is the worth in branding the house, the Genentechs of the world? We're actively thinking about how we do that, especially as we come to our 50th anniversary as a company next year. So I know there's a lot of activity and thinking, how do we strategically do this that is authentic to who we are as an organization and elevates all of the work that we do, all of the scientists that pursue day in and day out, all of the patients that we've been able to help improve the lives of.

Kat Vesce (13:39):

So in a world that we've been talking about has changed so much since Covid. Absolutely. People also expect more from companies than ever before. How do you align your corporate positioning with Genentech, with your creative output?

Erica Taylor (13:51):

Yeah. I think to me this is about relevance and authenticity. I think there's so much content in your life in and out of healthcare to consume, and I think people are far more discerning of what feels authentic to them, what feels true, what feels pandered to right today is International Women's Day. There's lots of celebrations around Women's Day. Not everyone has been consistent about really centering women and thinking about what are the things that women could benefit from and could use, I think, and the women walking around here today, they know the difference. And so I think for us, the onus is being true to who we are, being authentic, really, and as relevant as we can. And I think about that just sort of from the broader Genentech, but also how do we think about this product by product? What is the authentic experiences and where do we show up really matters? One of the things that I tell my teams all the time, I'm like, we'd say the word patient. They are people, which sounds obvious, but you can easily lose sight of the fact that the fact that someone is a patient is probably in the bottom five of the top 100 things they like about their life. So you want to be there when needed and the hell out of their lives when not. Right. And so how do we thread that line appropriately,

Ilyse Liffreing (15:13):

Right? Yeah,

Erica Taylor (15:14):

It's hard. It's hard. It's hard.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:16):

You could argue it's harder than your average CPG brand

Erica Taylor (15:19):

For

Ilyse Liffreing (15:19):

Instance.

Erica Taylor (15:20):

Absolutely.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:21):

Absolutely.

Erica Taylor (15:22):

So it keeps it interesting for sure

Ilyse Liffreing (15:23):

Yeah. Now, I know we kind of talked about this a little bit, but I wanted to zoom out here a little bit because of this trend, it seems like it's a trend anyway, and I'm curious what you think, but during the Super Bowl, there were stronger examples of creative lead pharma and biotech ads competing against the typical ads you would see during the Super Bowl usually. What do you think about this? Is that where we're moving as an industry?

Erica Taylor (15:51):

I think it's interesting. I feel like I'm a student of commercials. I actually personally love football, so I consume every second of the Super Bowl bowls for the game and then the ads that show. I think it's interesting and I think it's a space worth exploring as an industry. And I think we've seen, there's a Pfizer ad that was released this year. I think they did one last year as well. I think we're still trying to figure out how to land the mark. And Super Bowl is an interesting venue to do that. Most people don't want to see a drug commercial. They're eating nachos, they're watching a game, they're maybe cheering on a team, they're waiting for the halftime show, whatever. But how do you land in a space that is supposed to be celebratory in light with something that's relevant and important? I think it's worth exploring personally. I'm sort of like, let's see where there might be a relevant kind of meeting of the moment. And it might be specific to just that year, right? Or just this particular thing that we have in our portfolio that's innovative that we want to make sure people know about.

(16:54):

I don't know that I'd paint a brush and do it everywhere for all things personally, a hundred

Kat Vesce (16:58):

Percent. But

Erica Taylor (16:59):

I'm sure there's probably other marketers on this listening here that'll say, no, you should be pushing. And I'm curious, sort of very curious about where this could go and interested to see,

Ilyse Liffreing (17:10):

Since we're at South by Southwest and this is International Women's Day, I'd love to get your take on some of these female focused questions. Sure. So first of all, what inspired you to pursue a career in marketing and how has your journey been as a woman in the industry? I know with your strong STEM background especially, do you feel like there's still a much needed boost in how women pursue stem?

Erica Taylor (17:34):

Well, I am particularly passionate about STEM fields and as a self-proclaimed and bonafide nerd, I think the more in which ways in which we can celebrate that the better. I think it is interesting. We've seen increasing percentages of women pursuing STEM careers, which I applaud. It's not even the painted, I think more in medicine and healthcare related fields, I think there's still more gains to be had in fields like engineering and computer science. And one of the things that are very critical if we want to truly unlock things like artificial intelligence, I think there's more to do there. But I feel very much the, I feel like I'm coming behind women that have gone before and have really blazed trails, and I feel the same responsibility to make sure that whatever trail someone believes I've blazed or not is easier for whoever comes behind me. And I feel a deep obligation that I spend a good amount of my time mentoring and developing everyone, not just women, but folks that are interested in, as I call it, being in places you're not supposed to be. I think it just makes for a an interesting career path and journey. And I don't know what I'll do in the future. I still dunno what I want to do when I grow up. I'm having a great time now. And so I look to mentors that help see, oh, okay, that's how you did that.

Kat Vesce (18:59):

Can we better support women in leadership roles? You mentioned mentorship. What are some other ways you're leaning into that?

Erica Taylor (19:06):

Yeah, I think it can come up in both direct ways, like mentorship. I think those programs benefit everyone. And both I learned from them and I learn a lot about some of the challenges that people face in their careers now. I think there's subtle ways. One of, I think the most powerful things that we can do is as leaders show up honestly and authentically and not be afraid of showing moments of vulnerability. And I think it humanizes you. I had an experience last year where my husband got very, very ill and I needed to have a pretty major surgery. He's doing great now. But sort of living through that and thinking about how do I do the job? I've asked, I've been asked to do, but show up authentically with my team and let them know, Hey, I've got kind of a lot going on at home right now and I don't even know that I navigated that line well. But more recently actually got up on stage in front of my full organization and kind of shared the story. And I did it in the context of marketing and what it meant to have healthcare providers sort give me exactly what I need in the moment to help support him through this.

Kat Vesce (20:22):

What a full circle moment.

Erica Taylor (20:24):

It was somewhat of a spontaneous decision, but I think as certainly women leaders as leaders, your podcasters don't know this, but I'm a woman of color, so a lot of things that are not typical about where I show up in spaces. And the more that I can make it that I'm still human, I'm still me, and I go through life the same way you do, you never know what people are walking around with kind of position. I think that helps invite others to say, okay, maybe I didn't get a PhD. Maybe I don't have these things, but I am as human as she is and maybe I can make it there too. I think there's value in that, even though I was literally shaking in my boots to tell that story to one stage, that's a hard thing to do. And fighting to keep my composure and be as authentic as I could. Well,

Kat Vesce (21:13):

That's the most human

Erica Taylor (21:14):

Response ever. Yeah.

Kat Vesce (21:15):

So inspiring. What advice would you give to the next generation of marketing leaders, including we talked about not just young women, but everyone looking to grow into that leadership role?

Erica Taylor (21:29):

Yeah, I usually give, and there's a couple schools of thought on this, so this is sort of Erica's school of thought on this, right? I think that you have to strike this balance between having depth of knowledge but getting breadth of experience. And it's a really hard one to thread, especially if you're doing something you love. You just want to do more and more and more and more. And there may be great growth paths to be had in that. But a lot of the advice that I give to folks, it's like every time you think about pursuing another role, I am going to apply for this role. It's a promotion, it's a lateral, it think two moves ahead. Does it unlock more options for you? And be very aware, my more senior leaders, I'm like, you have to understand you're at a point in your seniority where making lateral moves gets harder.

(22:12):

And so you want to make them in your earlier points in your career when you can. Because one, there's just more of those roles. I'm a vice president, there's not a lot of us at Genentech. And so if I want to move laterally, I have fewer options. I have to be that much more thoughtful about it. But I feel like I come at this with the space of a more breadth of experience, but you still got to know the job. So you kind of have to navigate this sort of, as I call it, the difference between scuba and snorkel. If you can scuba dive and go deep, understand that that has ramifications for your career development. If you only snorkel, also ramifications for your career development. And then the other piece of advice I give folks is try not to plan more than a couple of years ahead because 10 years from now, you're going to do a job that doesn't exist today.

(22:59):

So I'm first CMO, so I couldn't have won this job. It didn't exist until three years ago, right? Plan for a couple of years at a time. And if you're weighing a couple of options that are otherwise equal to you go with the team you'd rather have more fun with, go with the team. You want to come hang out in Austin, Texas with, right? And you're never going to go wrong. Working on teams that you enjoy with each other. We have a really great and strong culture at Genentech, and I'm always like, if you see a leader you want to go work with, find a way to get on that person's team. So those are usually the kinds of advice I give to everyone. And then maybe the other, and this is more, I'm of a certain age wouldn't

Kat Vesce (23:41):

Know it. Podcasters

Erica Taylor (23:43):

Of a certain age worry a lot less, and someone gave me this advice, what am I going to do? How am I going to get that job? Blah, blah, blah. You've got to work a long time. Most if you're lucky, and many people do, and so worry a lot less about what's going to happen in a decade, worry a lot less about that person that's your peer that just got that promotion and they're going to go farther than you. Career path is their own and everything happens kind of exactly as it should. And so I try really hard to, especially for folks that I get the sort of fresh from business school and they're like, I've got to be CEO in five years. And I'm like, I don't dunno. Let's worry a little less about the timing and worry much more about the kinds of experiences you get to have along the way, what you get to learn and who you get to meet.

Kat Vesce (24:37):

Well,

Erica Taylor (24:37):

Erica, thank you

Kat Vesce (24:38):

So much and thanks for your vulnerability and sharing those tidbits and stories. I so appreciate this time. I know we're both leaving really inspired so

Erica Taylor (24:46):

Much. Thank you. I'm so happy to do this. I appreciate the invite. I hope it's helpful for your listeners. Yeah, no, it great. I'm sure it will be. Thank you so much. Thanks.

Kat Vesce (24:55):

Wow. I am blown away. I am walking away from that conversation with Erica Taylor. So inspired. I don't know about you.

Ilyse Liffreing (25:02):

Oh my gosh, yes. I love how vulnerable she was about talking about her husband, and not only to, I mean us, but to her whole company. And it takes a very brave and smart woman to be able to be open like that.

Kat Vesce (25:17):

And also what a full circle moment. I mean to be the CMO of a company that is marketing, I think she said 40 different medications, and then to be on the receiving end of that and navigating as your own family is going through the fear and intensity of recovering from an ailment.

Ilyse Liffreing (25:40):

As she said, everybody has their own stuff they're going through.

Kat Vesce (25:43):

Yeah. Yeah. That was really inspiring. I also just loved how she went into the tension that she faces as a marketer, which I can't think of any other category that has this same predicament of wanting to stay relevant and be top of mind for the inpatient or the provider, but also not wanting to be there all the time, and to be able to dip in and out when needed. Because ultimately her end goal she was saying was to keep people healthy. And so I think that's a really refreshing take, especially hearing it from a biotech company like Genentech, that you could hear horror stories about companies being incentivized to keep people sick. And I just loved that as a marketer. She's thinking through it from a place of just being authentic to getting people healthy

Ilyse Liffreing (26:35):

Completely. And she also mentioned in a world like Post Covid, everybody now has their eyes on those companies, which is huge because pre covid, nobody knew what shots you were getting from whom. And now it's like, what shot did you get? The Pfizer or the Moderna.

Kat Vesce (26:55):

Yeah. And there was even some kind of ranking around them at one point. Yeah, totally. So yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting how biotech and pharma are now getting into the brand marketing side of the house. And I liked her answer that she's trepidatious about how and when to deploy that. So overall, just super inspiring conversation. I'm walking away just beaming talking to all these amazing women. That's wonderful. And that's it for this edition of the current podcast. Be sure to tune in this whole month as we release all the recordings from South by Southwest. See you next time.

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PNC Bank Chief Marketing Officer Jenn Garbach joins The Current Podcast at SXSW as part of International Women’s Day and Women’s History Month. Garbach shares insights on the success of the bank’s Brilliantly Boring campaign and reflects on her journey in marketing, tackling imposter syndrome, and balancing career growth with family life.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Kat Vesce (00:00):

I'm Kat Vesce.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:02):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. In honor of International Women's Day and Women's Month, we're highlighting powerhouse women in marketing who are making an impact in their

Kat Vesce (00:17):

Industries. For this episode, we're thrilled to be joined by Jenn Garbach, chief marketing officer at PNC Bank, where she's redefining how 160 year old financial institution connects with modern consumers.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:28):

Jenn and her team launched brilliantly Boring, a campaign that leans into humor, trust, and authenticity.

Kat Vesce (00:34):

We'll dive into the strategy behind the campaign, the results that made it a game changer, and how PNC is balancing modernization with legacy in an industry built on tradition.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:44):

Plus, we'll discuss Jenn's insights on leadership and empowering women in the industry. Let's get started. So Jenn, it's wonderful for you to join us today at our studio at the Female Quotient Lounge during South by Southwest.

Jenn Garbach (01:00):

Thank you so much for having me. Yay.

Ilyse Liffreing (01:02):

So last July, PNC Bank came up with the campaign brilliantly boring. It's the first work with your new agency of record, Arnold Worldwide. Why is this campaign a game changer for the 160 year old brand?

Jenn Garbach (01:15):

Well, nothing infuses life and vigor into a brand like putting the word boring into it, but this has been a really fun opportunity for us to help match the growth trajectory of the business by rethinking the way we're telling the story about PNC in the marketplace. And so brilliantly boring has really been about taking that step forward, defining our brand in a way that brings distinction resonance in a very, very crowded and commoditized financial services market and is really authentic to who we are as an organization at PNC. Amazing.

Ilyse Liffreing (01:48):

And why lean into the word boring by any chance? The term is not, I guess, usually one you would associate with a creative campaign.

Jenn Garbach (01:55):

It isn't, but it works so well for us. And I think the single biggest thing is boring is very authentic to who PNC is. And give me a moment. Because what we're really proud of is redefining what boring means. Boring doesn't mean old stuck in our ways. What we're redefining boring as is steady, reliable, and trustworthy. And why that's really important to us is that we know financial services has seen as an industry has seen its ups and downs, not just recently, but frankly over time. And so the ability to signal to our customers that we are a bank that is 160 years old and that we have been steady and reliable along the way is really important. And how are you guys telling a story across Lakewood channels? We're across all mass channels right now, so you'll see us on tv, online, video, social media, and then pulling increasingly through our lower funnel and direct marketing. So that's been another fun part of bringing brilliantly boring to life in all aspects of PNCs marketing.

Kat Vesce (02:53):

I love that reframe too. And reclaiming the word boring to make it something more meaningful and more related to steadiness of

Jenn Garbach (03:00):

I think that's right. And what we hear in the marketplace too is while there's a lot of pressure to keep up in the marketplace, and we are certainly innovating and bringing new products, new technology to market, when you do the consumer research, you do not hear people saying, you know what I want from my bank? A really flashy forward bank that is doing all of these technological things. People want their money to be there when they need it. They're looking for a steady, reliable partner. And frankly, they're not thinking about financial services all the time, but when they need their money, they want to know it's there and they have access to it. And that's at the nexus of redefining brilliantly boring is we'll do all the boring stuff behind the scenes so that you can live the brilliant life that you want. You can be the brilliant business owner and run your business the way that you want.

Kat Vesce (03:46):

I love that. Less risks, less flash, more reliability.

Jenn Garbach (03:49):

That's right.

Kat Vesce (03:50):

So it seems like PNC Bank has not only undertaken a rehaul in terms of messaging, but a technical one as well. How has your previous experience as the head of global marketing, planning, operations and transformation at PayPal helped steer your strategy in reaching today's consumers for PNC Bank?

Jenn Garbach (04:06):

I'm going to lean into the campaign for a second and bear with me on this one. Part of the content extension of Brilliantly Boring is our boring before brilliance content series. And so we work with sports athletes like Scott Dixon, who's an indie car racer, or Steve Stricker who's a PGA golfer, and tell the story about all the boring, repetitive, seemingly mundane aspects of their training routines that show up in these moments of brilliance, whether it's on the racetrack, on the course. And that really sits behind when I think about not only my experience, but what we are doing at PNC, which is operational excellence is the foundation of what leads to brilliance of how we go to market and how we're able to connect and resonate with customers. So I think a bunch of that experience before leading through many different forms of transformation is making sure that we don't ignore the boring basics, those steady, reliable aspects of making sure we have process technology capabilities that we're training the team and helping set them up to take advantage of all of those new capabilities. And then how that shows up is us really resonating in a different way through campaigns like brilliantly boring, but also in our one-to-one marketing, our personalization efforts and really bringing value and resonance to the customers that we're working with.

Kat Vesce (05:26):

And let's shift into the results of this campaign. How is brilliantly boring performing? Is it reaching the right audience? Are you hitting everything that you set out to do with it? Any surprising results?

Jenn Garbach (05:37):

Yeah, we are really, really excited. So, so far we are firing in all dimensions right now by the numbers. Our return on ad spend is up 12% compared to prior campaigns. Our brand lift is up with statistically significant increase, which as we are on a growth trajectory as bank, moving from this super regional tier and competing increasingly with the big national banks signaling that we are a big national bank, someone that consumers can trust, seeing lift in all of those metrics is really important and something that we were looking for. And I think the one that's really fun and gives us some real time feedback is we have the highest positive social sentiment that we have ever had in our history of recording that. And that's really showing the engagement and the fun and the humor shining through with this campaign and how, I mean, you guys know, social is a channel that is very easy for folks to come in with negative thoughts or complaints. And so the idea that we're able to create really positive engagement is a nice feedback loop and response for us right now.

Ilyse Liffreing (06:42):

And now I understand that the campaign not only moved the needle in terms of reaching customers, but also internally kind of working as a way to center your corporate PNC around guideposts. Can you explain why?

Jenn Garbach (06:58):

I think having a campaign like this has done a bunch of really great things for us. It's been a culture carrier and in some ways defining our brand in this way is giving folks a way to see themselves and the work that they do. You don't have to be in marketing to be a part of brilliantly boring. You can be a credit underwriter, you can be in operations, you can be in the frontline working in the care center in a branch and really live and embody that spirit of brilliantly boring. It's also just help us give a story internally. So there's this mirror image of what we're trying to do with new breakthrough storytelling externally, but that same thing applies internally. One of the things I love most is hearing folks play back, Hey, for the first time I'm watching our new TV ads and it feels like we're putting PNC on stage with those other big banks that I'm used to seeing other banks, other companies show up like this. And it's a source of pride for folks to be able to see themselves. So really, really pleased that it is carrying that torch for us internally. And then it helps us connect further with the brand is not just the campaign. The brand is the culmination of all of our product services and experiences. And so having folks feel that connected is really impactful.

Ilyse Liffreing (08:11):

Now I want to take a moment and kind of see the big picture here because you mentioned before that we're living in a time of high distrust of banks. Now how does this campaign and then perhaps any future ones you're working on, what does it do to calm those consumers fears in this area? Where is this fear coming from originally? I guess really? Where does the responsibility of the marketer come in here?

Jenn Garbach (08:40):

I think it's being honest and really assessing the marketplace landscape that we're operating in today. Right. And while I may not be proud of it, it's fairly evident to be able to say that financial services has not exactly been a beloved industry to folks over the past 20 years. And again, you can look at bank failures at the beginning of last year, you can look back to 2008, there's this repeated history. But if you go back even further, kind of citing that 160 year history, there was a time when banking was a mainstay of the community, right? Truly like a pillar on every main street in the community as that steady, reliable place. And so this is both coming from consumer feedback saying we are looking for that steady, reliable partner, and also we're looking for an empathetic partner. And that is a place that in our history at PNC, we have always shined through as a partner that builds relationships with our customers and with our clients. And so I think brilliantly boring is a way for us to really help acknowledge some of that mistrust in the industry and signal that we have been steady and reliable this whole time. And that's in fact a differentiator in a time where things can be very flashy fast, it's a lot changing in the financial environment overall, and it's actually a differentiator for us

Kat Vesce (10:04):

Creating that bit of fomo too. I bet. For people who may be left and want to come back.

Jenn Garbach (10:08):

That's right.

Kat Vesce (10:10):

With such a legacy brand like PNC Bank, how do you balance what to carry into the future and what to refresh?

Jenn Garbach (10:16):

It's a great question. I think about in any time of transition, and I'll define us in transition as just in growth mode, really being thoughtful about what you keep and what you leave behind. And I mentioned earlier that notion of we have always been a relationship based organization that is something that is so near and dear to our hearts culturally and is a huge part of our success recipe. So we are going to keep and hold that precious and showcase that frankly as part of the brand, what we're going to leave behind and be willing to move on from is growing from a bank that used to be a regional based in Pittsburgh and now operating at national scale. We've got to be ready to leave behind some of the processes, some of the things that we operated that way because it served us back in the day and now we need to try new things. That includes being open to a bold new brand platform, like brilliantly boring. So I think it's a nice signal of the willingness to embrace some new things that we never would've seen on our horizon in the past, but also keep true to the foundational parts of our culture, the ways of working that are really core to our success.

Kat Vesce (11:22):

We're going to pivot into some rapid fire q and a and celebration of International Women's Day and Women's Month. So focusing on you as a female marketing leader, what has been your biggest challenge?

Jenn Garbach (11:37):

I was thinking about this question and I think one, as a marketing leader, I think my biggest challenge has been being able to balance the art and science of marketing. And as a woman leader, it's been the ability to constantly my personal and my professional expectations. And those end up bleeding together in these different intersections. And sometimes it ends up in the form of being one of few women at the table. But I do feel very lucky that I have worked for organizations that have really strong advocacy and where I do have other women at the table. But I would say balancing that element of the function that it can sometimes be written off as just creative and there's lots of science and data behind how we go to market. And then also the tension of I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I'm a friend, I have all these other dimensions and constantly recalibrating those expectations and how those play in with my aspirations and my leadership growth journey.

Kat Vesce (12:37):

Have you cracked the code because as also a mom and a marketer and trying to balance career growth and that trajectory as well as wanting to be there for your kids and wanting to be a good spouse and wanting to be a great friend? I feel the same things you're talking about. Wondering if you have any advice

Jenn Garbach (12:58):

On that. I don't know that I can claim to have cracked the code, but the thing that has helped me is probably twofold. It's one thinking about you have these different pillars of my life and I named some of them. It's my family, it's my career, it's my friends, it's my health. And it is seldom that all of those pillars are perfectly in place at any given time. And the second part is realizing that it is, I use that phrase recalibration intentionally. It's I need to recalibrate my own expectations of I can't give a hundred percent energy to all of those aspects at all times. And so being really honest with myself of I'm in a surge mode career, which might mean I'm pulling back on family and sometimes that's hard to acknowledge, but having that conversation with my family and rebalancing is really important. So that I think it's keeping at forefront and realizing it's not actually a point of arrival. It's a constant process.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:56):

Now, a common qualm of women I guess is that they experience imposter syndrome being in any, this is across multiple industries, of course, but in marketing, I feel like it's true. Have you experienced imposter syndrome in your career? And if so, I guess how did you push past it?

Jenn Garbach (14:15):

Absolutely. That feeling of being called into the principal's office when you get an email or a phone call from a senior leader or that feeling of, oh my gosh, this is the time they're going to figure out, I have no idea what I'm doing. I do think I have made significant growth personally in helping to manage that. And one of the things that's been really helpful is I've worked with a number of different coaches and this idea of what is the talk track that's in my head versus what is the reality of the feedback signals around me? And I actually had a leader that I worked with previously who played this back really directly to me when I was sharing very openly about some of that challenge of feeling like I was underperforming. And he looked at me and said, Jenn, is that story in your head? What feedback are you actually getting? Who has told you that besides yourself? And so that's something, again, try to keep in the forefront of my mind of is that a narrative I'm building for myself and does that match the feedback that I'm getting around me? And if it's disconnected, that might be a signal of it's just up in my head when all the other kind of signals are coming back being like, no,

(15:26):

You're right in there. Keep Going.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:28):

And do you think women in marketing face different expectations or leadership challenges than their male counterparts? Kind of a tricky one. How do you navigate those?

Jenn Garbach (15:38):

Yeah. One of the dynamics that I'm always cognizant of is probably more related to, again, marketing as a function. And I think because marketing is not always well understood broadly at an organization and can get reduced to the idea of it's producing creative, it can play into stereotypes about women and women workers. And so I think it's about, for me at least, it's been about building my leadership brand as a transformational leader and then grounding that in a broad general management skillset and really taking a data-driven approach to marketing to help combat that. There are lots of fun, creative parts of my job, but there's also a science and a math behind it and creating that accountability for myself and how I interact with my business partners to show outcomes. So that is something that I definitely think exists broadly. And I have tried to just balance for myself by thinking about what is that leadership brand for myself and what is my leadership philosophy in terms of leading a marketing organization

Kat Vesce (16:39):

As more women take on executive roles, what shifts do you hope to see in the way marketing organizations are structured and led?

Jenn Garbach (16:47):

I don't know if I have a great answer to how I want to see them structured and led. I think I just want to see more women in the leadership roles in the seats. I think I don't want to be reductive to how women lead. I think it's just the idea of the more different brains we have at the table, the broader our thinking, the better our collaboration. And so I think it's about getting more folks into the seats and finding out what that actually looks like.

Kat Vesce (17:16):

And not even gender. No, but not even gender specific. That could mean anyone. I think just diversity of thought is so important. Exactly. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Amazing. Well, Jenn, thank you so much for the time. Thank you so much. We really enjoyed this.

Jenn Garbach (17:26):

Thank you for having me. This has been fun.

Kat Vesce (17:27):

Second, great. Wow. Another stellar conversation today. I'm just walking away so inspired. I really loved how PNC Bank and Jenn Garba have reclaimed the word boring, obviously. It's a main point of, it's so fun. It's so fun and a great way to reframe it into meaning something that is steady, something that is reliable. Taking that tradition of what PNC bank stands for and meeting the needs of what their customers told them they're looking for in a modern bank is just so cool. And really what a way to transition the brand.

Ilyse Liffreing (18:11):

And for 160 year old legacy brand, that's hard to do. It's really balancing what they want to carry into the future and what they want to refresh. And I feel like Jenn was really good at describing exactly that

Kat Vesce (18:26):

And giving their internal employees like a battle cry or something to you really rally behind, which is so important. Especially as she mentioned, their services are going to, on the national scale, it feels like a campaign that can really service anyone in the country at any age who really, you don't want the flash and pizazz.

(18:47):

You want to be able to live that way maybe with your finances being in order, but you kind of need the steadiness of that.

Ilyse Liffreing (18:54):

It should be boring. It really should be boring, be easy and boring. I also liked how she dug into imposter syndrome because I feel like that's very prevalent as women in marketing. And it was very fascinating how she had a boss who was like, I think that's just a story playing out in your head. Nobody's telling you this. It's

Kat Vesce (19:14):

A good reminder to make sure that you're leveraging true feedback that's coming in and not creating your own story or perception. I think as women, we, and in general, marketers really strive to elevate the bar in everything they do, and I think it's important for everyone to remind

Ilyse Liffreing (19:38):

Themselves, especially when you're battling

Kat Vesce (19:41):

Perception versus reality

Ilyse Liffreing (19:43):

Handling everything like motherhood on top of,

Kat Vesce (19:45):

Oh, that was another favorite moment for me, I think. I was like, give me all the tips. Have you cracked the code? Does anyone crack the code?

(19:56):

Because I mean, whether you're, Nope, truth is nope. But I loved how she said you can't be a hundred percent in any one pillar. And beyond just being a mom, she talked about health, being a good friend, surging in your career, and managing when and how those surges come to fair.

(20:13):

Just really gave me a lot to think about. I need to do some adjustments in my own life to make sure I'm not trying to do adjustments.

Ilyse Liffreing (20:21):

Yeah, that's what biggest takeaway. We all need to do adjustments.

Kat Vesce (20:25):

Yeah. Yep. And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. Be sure to tune in this whole month as we release all the recordings from South by Southwest. See you next time.

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