The Big Impression

Spotify’s Brian Berner joins The Big Impression to talk about how brands are looking for speed, flexibility and smarter ways to connect with audiences. 

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Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce’s relationship was still only a fresh rumor in 2023, when State Farm brought together Travis’ mother, Donna Kelce, and Jake from State Farm at an NFL game.

On a new episode of The Big Impression, State Farm’s Patty Morris dives into how the company quickly capitalized on the opportunity despite being risk-averse. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing,

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

Today we're diving into one of the most buzzworthy brand moments in recent memory when Jake from State Farm crashed the Taylor Swift NFL multiverse in a way only he could.

Damian Fowler (00:20):

Our guest is Patty Morris, head of brand at State Farm. Patty and her team turned a viral cultural moment into a strategic marketing win from the sidelines of an NFL game to the front lines of CTV social and beyond.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:34):

We're talking about that famous seat swap with Mama Kelsey, and then digging into why Jake keeps showing up in all the right places and how State Farm is rewriting the playbook on building a culturally fluent brand.

Damian Fowler (00:47):

So let's get into it. We're going to go back to the fall of 2023 when Taylor Swift shows up at a chiefs game and sits next to Mama Kelsey and days later, Jake from State Farm's. In that seat, could you take us behind the scenes and how the idea came together so quickly?

Patty Morris (01:07):

Okay. Well first let me just back us up a little bit. Okay. State Farm is 103 year old, brand 103, so we have certain ways of doing things,

Ilyse Liffreing (01:19):

A lot of legacy there right?

Patty Morris (01:19):

Yes. A lot of legacy we, I think, have been successful as marketers and done a lot of great things over the decades, but we have a way of doing things and you can imagine we're an insurance company, we're risk averse, all of those things. I would just say knowing that context, how do you get from that to an agency calling you on a Friday night and saying, we have this big idea and we think you need to execute it, and it's in about 40 hours. And also it's on probably one of the biggest stages there is, and you say yes to that of course, but how do you get from A to BI think is your question. How did you make that happen? And I would just say a couple of things. One, you have to set the right conditions so that you are part of the cultural Lex Conna in a way that those opportunities come to you. And I think we had done that over time with Jake from State Farm, being really methodical about that and getting him out there in a way that people want to see him and in a way that is a best representation of our brand and allows us to be in cultural places that we otherwise couldn't without that physical brand asset.

Damian Fowler (02:30):

I mean, everyone obviously wanted to be part of that moment, and it's interesting that you bring up the fact that State Farm is risk averse, and yet you made it in it into that moment. Why was your connection to the Kelsey family and Jake's cultural capital so critical to making it land?

Patty Morris (02:47):

Yeah, I mean, I think the other context in the background around a moment like that is we've spent a long time over a decade really working to be endemic in the football landscape. Whether it was our longstanding campaign with Aaron Rogers and now Patrick Mahomes, we had brought Travis Kelsey into our football creative for the season and he was part of that work. If you remember, the Mahomes and Otto commercial was the best bundle in the league.

Damian Fowler (03:15):

Oh yeah, yeah, I do remember.

Patty Morris (03:16):

So we had all of those things working together, plus all the work we had done to make Jake from State Farm who he is, and you get this lightning moment where you have the right to be there because you have Jake and people love him, and he's a physical manifestation of an intangible product that you can put in these environments. We've built a brand that's endemic in football and is recognized in that space and just I think hats off to the creative mindset at maximum effort for calling us and saying, we think this could be a really great joyful cultural moment. And not many people could go sit in that seat next to Mama Kelsey the week after, but we think fans will love this and risk averse or not. When you hear an idea like that and you are able to put your brand in a position like that, you say yes. And if there's anybody that understands maximizing a cultural moment and doing it in the right way, I think it's maximum effort. So you trust them in that moment to do that with you. And man, we did it very quickly.

Ilyse Liffreing (04:23):

Very cool. Yeah, no, I know. I was just going to say it was very fast. The timing was impeccable.

Patty Morris (04:30):

Yeah, I think a week later it wouldn't have

Ilyse Liffreing (04:32):

Landed. No,

Patty Morris (04:33):

I agree. It had to be that weekend and just the next cultural beat right after that, and I think it really surprised people and added value to what they were seeing and during the game and just a really joyful way.

Ilyse Liffreing (04:46):

How quickly did it come together after the idea came into,

Patty Morris (04:50):

They called us on a Friday night and after a long week, a busy week said, Hey, we have this idea, but we have to make it happen on Sunday, or we don't think it'll work. And we said, we agree, but oh my gosh, how are we going to make this happen by Sunday? And so of course their next call is Jake from State Farm, are you busy? Can you be there? Can you get to New York overnight? Basically. And the actor that plays Jake, Kevin Miles is such a great partner,

(05:21):

He gets that call and says, what's the idea? And we tell him and he is like, well, we have to do it, we have to do that. We think so too. And he's like, then yes, I'll get there. I'll be there. So Friday night to, I can't remember what time the game was on Sunday, but wow, it was very fast and we're not used to moving that fast. That was an effort for us, but a really important moment. And I think in tipping point where we started to build some muscle around being able to capitalize on those kind of moments.

Ilyse Liffreing (05:50):

How long would you say campaigns usually take to come together to

Patty Morris (05:54):

Prepare

Ilyse Liffreing (05:54):

A little bit?

Patty Morris (05:55):

It depends, right? It depends. Sometimes you plan something out and you're building something big. You do that really methodically and strategically, and it takes a while. Sometimes you're doing something that is a smaller scale and you can do that faster. But these types of things are really, we call 'em lightning in a bottle moment when it has to be, the specific parameters have to be exactly right. The stars have to align, and you have to be able to do that quickly. And so we try to work with our teams to be doing the long-term things, but also have the capacity to be able to turn and burn on a great idea when we see it. And I think that's why we've been able to hop into these cultural moments and punch above our weight as a brand because they're not paid moments, they're cultural moments that get a lot of earned attention, and that can be really powerful. Very cool.

Damian Fowler (06:44):

So beyond that moment, then you've got that, you capture that lining moment, then what do you do and how do you make it, you channel the cultural impact of that moment across the different channels going forward to maximize it?

Patty Morris (07:00):

First thing you do is celebrate, right? You took a risk and it landed and it paid off. And it's important to celebrate that because it can be really scary, right? I'm sure we've got this really precious, iconic brand in our hands. We've got this really precious asset in Jake from State Farm that we've worked so hard to build. And you take a risk like that. I think it's just important to celebrate when you make the right decisions and you're able to do it quickly. But we talk a lot about an equation that we have at State Farm, and it's a shift that we've made. We of course care about how many impressions we get. We of course care about our cost pers, right? All the things that we marketers have to care about and do care about. We try to focus on putting things through a lens, especially things like this through the lens of reach times engagement equals attention.

(07:50):

So when you get this sort of lightning moment, it's just a cultural moment that everybody's already paying attention to and you sort of are able to insert yourself into it. We have a lot of great partners that we work with, media partners, and we endemic in that football space. We knew everybody was going to look at that moment. We didn't really have to do a lot. We just had to put Jake from State Farm in the seat and everybody's attention turned to it, and it created its own 360 moment in its own way. And so the earned potential you get from that, the attention, that attention metric, syndicated headlines, engagement in social, everybody talking about it on replays and highlights, it's priceless. It's priceless. So I would say a lot of things, we have to work really hard to spread it across channels and make it 360. This was really just a matter of setting up the moment and then letting it do its thing.

Ilyse Liffreing (08:46):

How do you think about where Jake will show up next?

Patty Morris (08:50):

We actually try to be really disciplined about this. He is that physical manifestation of the promise that we sell in insurance and the relationship that we sell. And so I think the first criteria is, is it authentic to the brand and how we want him to show up, and is it demonstrating relationship and connection in the right way, and is it true to our values wherever he's going to show up? The reality also is he is one human being, so we have to manage his calendar appropriately. And Jake's a busy guy, very busy guy. He is an influencer in his own right. He's got 1.4 million followers on TikTok. The TikTok job alone is a lot. So we're pretty choiceful about where and when he shows up. So it's got to be the right fit. It's got to be an opportunity for us to really demonstrate that physical connection and we got to work it into the calendar. Yeah,

Ilyse Liffreing (09:45):

That's funny. So I would love to then now dig into some of your takeaways from that campaign. Were there any results, like reactions that you saw from the mom and Kelsey moment maybe in terms of brand lift or broader cultural impact?

Patty Morris (10:01):

Yeah, I mean, I think part of what has catapulted this branded asset into the cultural space in a way that just honestly, it's hard to measure. So of course we look at individual campaign metrics. Do we see brand lift in the body of commercial work that we put out? But in a case like this, it's harder to measure. So I think we mentioned the earned and the billions of impressions that created the engagement and the chatter online and all of that. But it's really all of those metrics combined with some of the intangibles. It's like when it comes to Jake from State Farm or our brand, we're constantly testing those assets for familiarity. So recognition and relevance, and we do it two or three times a year. And so we can see where he plots on that compared to our competitors and compared to our rest of our assets, we've got six, seven really important assets that are really familiar and we've worked really hard to build. Most brands are happy and lucky to have one or two. We've got seven of them.

Damian Fowler (11:04):

So

Patty Morris (11:05):

That's a metric that we look at too, to say is what we're doing collectively and in cases like the Mama Kelsey moment, pushing those assets into higher recognition and higher relevance and uniqueness for our brand. And those are the metrics that we're looking at.

Damian Fowler (11:22):

I also want to ask you, what did you learn about your audience after the appearance and the way they engaged with Jake in that moment?

Patty Morris (11:31):

It's such a phenomenon to me that this character can be in a lot of different cultural places and be accepted. So we didn't know if you go sit him next to Mama Kelsey after a Taylor Swift moment, people are going to love it or they're going to hate it. It's not one of those things that maybe no one will notice and we'll just see. It's a big swing.

(11:57):

So I think we learned from fans that he is welcome in those cultural moments, and so that got us to have a little more confidence routes around some of the decisions we've made since then. So when you see him at Bravocon, you see him at TwitchCon, you see him at Coachella, and we do an exclusive drop with Travis Scott. And the reaction to him in those places, whether it's online and in social and how people comment and engage about it or in real life, is actually overwhelming. So many people will come up to us or we'll approach Jake, who are my kids love you. My kids won't stop talking about you. And even young kids, Jake from State Farm, they want their picture with him. So I think we've learned over time that he does have this universal appeal, and he's welcome. He's loved in these places, and so you're able to add value to people's experiences and to some of this context in a way that you just wouldn't expect from an insurance company.

Ilyse Liffreing (12:55):

So Jake obviously has become much more than a spokesperson. He's a TV personality at this point, and he's a spokes influencer as well.

Damian Fowler (13:05):

Spokes spoke.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:07):

Spoke.

Damian Fowler (13:08):

I

Ilyse Liffreing (13:08):

Liked it. Okay. Say that three times. We need to redo this.

Damian Fowler (13:11):

No, no, it was good. I think it was good, the interaction. That was good.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:14):

Okay. The spoke flu? Yes. If you'll, I think you coined that perhaps. Maybe we did. Maybe we did maybe. But he has permission to show up anywhere, basically. How did you build that kind of brand equity?

Patty Morris (13:30):

I think it's a thousand little things over a long period of time. Original Jake from State Farm, that commercial was in 2011, right? So you've got a long history of equity in 2019. We recast that role and we're very specific about how we wanted to bring that to life. So I think it's been many things over a long period of time. But also I would say especially in some of these more recent cultural things, we test in small places. We test smaller things, we build competence, and then we try the next thing and you can see the reception to it. And I would say the other thing that stands out to people are his clothes. So red and khaki and his kind of uniform that he wears has also become pretty recognizable, and people talk about that a lot. And we take a lot of care in how he dresses and how he shows up.

(14:23):

So naturally we talk a little bit about apparel and fashion places and could he be accepted in that area and we can connect with a totally different audience that otherwise again, would not be connecting with insurance maybe. And so we test into small places. You wouldn't say, let's have Jake show up at the Met Gala right out of the gate you would say, where can we try a couple of places? So we work with gq, we send him to Vogue World and just see how does it go? He does a whole behind the scenes content series around it. He shows up there and fans loved it. They're so excited for him. They feel like he's their friend and they're just excited to see how he's moving through the world and everybody's cheering for him, rooting for him. I think you try in small places and you test in small places, you build confidence so that you can say yes to the big swings and you can just kind of know in your gut when that's right.

Damian Fowler (15:15):

Are you able to connect that recognition, that brand equity to business outcomes? I know people say, oh, there's Jake, in terms of actual business impact.

Patty Morris (15:25):

Yeah, of course. We're looking at brand awareness, especially with younger audiences. And like I said, Jake is universally loved. We're working hard to make sure we're relatable and relevant with younger audiences, especially in these big cultural moments. And we see our awareness scores being at the top of our category. We see our consideration scores and the trend of improvement over the last five, six years as we've really put Jake forward in this way and become really consistent about it. And there's also sort of the offline pieces of that, and you look at how people are talking about him online and the conversation and the performance on his TikTok and the brand lift that comes from that. So absolutely, we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't think it had profound business value. And I think we cracked the code a little bit on how to do it in a way that isn't a caricature or a mascot. It's this in-between version of it can really have a personal connection with consumers either digitally or commercially or in real life. And I think that's special about it.

Damian Fowler (16:28):

We're talking about maximizing impact, especially around new channels. Are there any that you are looking at in particular? Like CTV?

Patty Morris (16:35):

Yeah, in CTV streaming, just the collapsing of the funnel is how we talk about it. Where in a lot of these streaming environments, you're really able to pull people through an experience in a way that you couldn't before. So the connected piece of that, the data that surrounds that and how you actually make that work from a customer experience perspective in a way that can pull people through, not just from seeing your ad, but actually considering you and able to take an action in that moment is really exciting. So we are experimenting with a lot of different things and a lot of different partners. We did some really great work last year with Amazon and Thursday night football. So that to me is a super exciting area and one that I think marketers are going to be able to show results from in a way that we just haven't before, all across the funnel, which is super exciting.

Ilyse Liffreing (17:27):

It's hard for a lot of brands, especially legacy brands, to be so nimble and quick with their brand spokesperson. What would you say to marketers who are hesitant to take those kind of risks?

Patty Morris (17:40):

I would say know the places where you have to be vigilant about your brand and know the places where you can turn over your pen a little bit. And I think that's especially true just with the rise of creators and creators and influencers as a very important media channel. We've been talking about that a lot this week here and can around how brands work with creators and the partnership that you have to have because it can feel really uncomfortable as a brand to turn over your very precious thing to creators, but they know their audiences best

Ilyse Liffreing (18:16):

And

Patty Morris (18:16):

They know what's going to work. And so it can feel scary, but you kind of have to turn over the reins a little bit and let them work and create with your brand in a way that's going to be relevant to consumers and their audiences. And so I think that is true in this context as well.

Damian Fowler (18:32):

To pull off a move like this, a brand has to move fast. And I'm curious just to hear from inside as it were, what structures or ways of working at State Farm made you capable first off of pulling something like this off, and then maybe what have you learned from it as a company?

Patty Morris (18:47):

Yeah, again, being 103, it's hard. We've got set ways of working and we have legal and compliance teams, and those are very real parameters that as a marketer you have to pay attention to. But culture waits for no one. Culture just keeps on moving. And if you really are going to capitalize on these moments as they happen, you have to be nimble in new ways. And I think it's just have the discussions, get on the phone, talk through it, is it the right thing at the right time? And is it worth taking some calculated risk because the benefit to the brand and the business is going to be strong enough to outweigh the risk. And there's no way you can do that or know that without just rolling up your sleeves and hashing through it with your team and making the best decisions you can for your brand.

(19:31):

And if you get it right, it can be a gold mine. If you get it wrong, it can really be hard. So I think that it is difficult and it's stressful, but for us, mama Kelsey moment was probably a tipping point where we said we have to recognize and be able to act quickly and nimbly when that makes sense. Not all the time that would be chaos, but when it makes sense and do it in a way that's going to be acceptable to our organization and feel good about that, but also in a way that is going to allow us not just to react to moments, but be moment makers. So I think we've moved on from that moment to do that in different spaces, and it's been great for the brand. That's

Ilyse Liffreing (20:11):

Wonderful. That was great. Now we have some rapid fire questions for

Patty Morris (20:14):

You. Okay. Okay.

Ilyse Liffreing (20:17):

So first one is a question that is a popular one for this podcast. What are you obsessed with figuring out right now?

Patty Morris (20:26):

Oh, so many obsessions. My biggest one right now is organic search and really just understanding how that's going to move and change with AI and generative AI and what that means for brands and how you need to show up. That landscape is changing and it's so critical to adapt to what really is consumer behavior, adapting to the consumer behavior in a way that is going to make sure we're showing up in the right places in the right ways. And it's probably one of the biggest places that I can see right now that is changing rapidly and significantly. So we're really working hard to make sure we're on top of that.

Ilyse Liffreing (21:04):

Yeah. On that note, are there other ways you are already using AI or experimenting with that?

Patty Morris (21:10):

Yeah, I mean, it's such an exciting time to be a marketer and also a little bit unsettling. And so I think like many others, we're experimenting in certain places. We've been using AI through certain things for a while, but there are other areas where we're really just experimenting. So probably the biggest is content scaling. How do you responsibly use AI to create content at scale and do that in the right way, in a compliant way? Because the unlock there is just exponential connection with consumers and personalized connection with consumers, and it has the potential to free up capacity of teams and agencies to do other things, more things, different things, which is really exciting, but we're also very focused on doing that responsibly.

Ilyse Liffreing (21:59):

Would you use it with Jake since the schedule is so packed?

Patty Morris (22:04):

That's a good question. No, not yet. Not yet. Jake. The beauty of Jake is he's a real person, and that's one of the core tenets of what we all love about him. I think we'll keep it that way for now. That's a good answer.

Damian Fowler (22:18):

Okay. So next, what's missing from the market from your point of view?

Patty Morris (22:24):

This week has been so interesting and inspirational. For me personally, and this might be a little bit weird, but my biggest takeaway from this week is making sure we're asking ourselves what are we trying to make people feel? I think as a marketer, you can just get really wrapped up in a lot of quantity over quality, and if there's anything we see here in can, it is definitely quality work from all over the world, and it's actually quite humbling and inspiring at the same time. My big takeaway and what I think might be missing is making sure we're trying to make people feel something about our brand. It's the most powerful thing you could do, I think, to move someone towards your products. And I think the balance of let's get everything done and let's get everything out there with are we making something of quality that's really going to create a consumer emotion and connect is something I'll be taking back to my team and something that I think is missing from the market.

Ilyse Liffreing (23:27):

Amazing. If Jake from State Farm could pop up anywhere next with zero constraints, where would you send him?

Patty Morris (23:35):

I would send him to my family reunion. So they will stop asking to meet Jake from State Farm. I get the question all the time, and yeah, everybody wants to meet Jake, which I love. Or you know what? Maybe I would send her to the future so he could tell us how all this is going to

Ilyse Liffreing (23:54):

Shake

Patty Morris (23:54):

Out. That'd be pretty cool. Very cool. That'd be awesome.

Damian Fowler (24:00):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (24:03):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

Damian Fowler (24:09):

And remember,

Patty Morris (24:11):

Reach times engagement equals attention. Culture waits for no one.

Damian Fowler (24:16):

I'm Damian and

(24:18):

We'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of The Big Impression, Kelly breaks down how Diageo is turning tequila into a global cultural force. One standout example: a six-city collaboration with DJ and fashion icon Peggy Gou that combined out-of-home, merch drops, pop-up events and hyperlocal storytelling.

From a Hong Kong hot pot party to a Milan piazza activation, every detail was designed to blur the line between brand and experience. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:08):

Today we're talking about how one of the fastest growing categories in the spirits industry, tequila and mezcal, is being shaped by culture, identity, and global consumer trends.

Damian Fowler (00:20):

Our guest is Sophie Kelly, SVP of Global Tequila and Mezcal Categories. At Diageo, she's leading the strategy behind some of the world's most iconic tequila brands, helping Diageo navigate its growth, changing cultural expectations, and the new ways consumers connect with celebration.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:39):

We'll talk about how Diageo is bouncing global scale with local storytelling, and in short, how tequila has become a cultural force beyond just the shot glass.

Damian Fowler (00:50):

So let's get into it.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:51):

Diageo is no stranger to bold campaigns and really intersecting in today's culture. How does your latest work in the tequila and mezcal category continue that legacy? And with your latest campaigns, what was one core story or rather insight that you're trying to bring to life?

Sophie Kelly (01:13):

Our moment of consumption is normally when people are out socializing, trying to have the best times of their lives or celebrate a major moment in their life. So think birthdays, weddings,

Ilyse Liffreing (01:25):

Or even here at

Sophie Kelly (01:26):

Can, even here at can, right festivals. So what is really important for us as we build our brands and think about how we go to market is that we are creating experiences for consumers to participate in. I think some of my favorite stuff across the category is on Don Julio. I mean, we launched a brand new product, 1942 Manys, which was a 50 ml supposed to allow people to access the luxury of 1942 at a better price point in a fun format. And we did that in the Oscars, right? But the most recent one, which I just adore and am still obsessed with and is still going, would be our cultural global collaboration with Peggy Goo. She is a number one DJ globally. She's also an icon in the fashion world, and she creates a load of fashion jewelry. We discovered her in Southeast Asia and she was a massive fan of 1942.

(02:32):

As marketers, we just started to ride along with her and gift her and be a part of her experience. So we approached her and said, any interest in creating a 1942 special limited edition with us? And she was blown away. She was like, yes, but can I design the product? Can I design the experience? Can it be global? Can it travel? Can it be teased? We said yes to all of the above. So we started off in Miami where we had an intimate party, but that intimate party probably had influences at it that had over a hundred thousand followers on Instagram. So we started to tease the collaboration, which was called the 1942 goo. And that's a really important element because we changed the logo of 1942 to be 1942 goo. We teased the campaign with outdoor and these events and we went from Miami to New York, to London to Milan and then to Seoul and then to Hong Kong. New York had a pop-up souvenir store in a car park. When we went to Milan, we did it in a piazza. When we went to London, we did it differently. When we were in Hong Kong, we did a hot pot pop-up. One of the most special parts of the experience was in Seoul, right in her home neighborhood and right next to where she was going to perform. And that was already up six weeks before it came. So we are teasing the drum roll in and the desire for people to be a part of this limited experience.

Ilyse Liffreing (04:12):

Now, I know you're talking a lot about out of home, but what were some of the other marketing channels that you leaned into for this campaign?

Sophie Kelly (04:18):

Everything in the popup was consumable or was collectible. So whether it was the key chains, whether it was the hats, whether it was her specifically designed scars, consumers could collect it, they could create content on it and they could share it broader. So then what started to happen was they were creating their own content. She was creating her own content and influencers within her sphere were creating their own content. And then there was the tease that we were moving to a new city. So that was creating a hype in that. So when you think about channel mix, it was digital, it was static, it was experiences, real life experiences, and most importantly, actions doing something, not just talking about it and then providing people with beautiful little artifacts that they could collect from the experiences to participate and create around.

Damian Fowler (05:18):

We want to get to what your takeaways are in a minute, but before that, I want to ask you, it is interesting when you watch the kind of trajectory of different spirits, it seems like tequila's having a serious moment right now. I mean, for example, in New York, just the other week I ordered a mezcal Negroni, it was

Sophie Kelly (05:39):

Amazing. 800 new craft brands have been launched into tequila in the last, I dunno, two years.

Ilyse Liffreing (05:47):

Wow, that is a lot.

Sophie Kelly (05:47):

So we are seeing a boom in tequila in the same way we saw in North American whiskeys in bourbon in the last five, six years and as a global business unit that I represent. So you are running the gamut of understanding the benefit of the experience of tequila, which is high-end tequilas that are incredibly versatile, that are suitable for multiple occasions and multiple drinks in a culture like the US to teaching people that tequila is no longer that bad shot you had in college. How do you educate? How do you train, how do you get these drinks into culture so that people choose them? Well, you got to have strong brands. You got to have the love of the bartender and the on-premise and you create the biggest rituals there beyond anywhere else, and they travel into the home and then you've got to pick up how consumers are interacting, right? So I'll give you a fun one. For example, we were in the ski fields and we observed that people were taking hot chocolates in shot glasses and then they were tipping the mini that I gave you, the 1942 mini into the top of the shot glass, and that was a serve. So we took that and we scaled it across the ski resorts, right? So from simple mixed drinks to sipping age liquids to fun novel rituals in clubs is how you really fuel what's going on.

Damian Fowler (07:19):

In terms of takeaways, do you have any kind of data points that show the growth and interest in this category?

Sophie Kelly (07:26):

It's the fastest growing spirits segment in the category right now and is forecasted to be that way for the next five years. So if you've got spirits running at about three or 4%, you've got tequila running at about six to 11%, which is kind of amazing. It's also very specific on its development. So if you look at the US, it's more developed. You look at Mexico, it's very developed and the rest of the world it's between five and 15% penetration. Give you a fun fact like whiskey and vodka is up around 36, 42 depending on the market. Yeah, too many people associated tequila with college shots. That is not the experience of tequila. It is playing across high energy. It's in the club, it's with the VIPs, it's with the celebrities, but it's also playing in casual connect moments and simple mixed drinks. So you're able to get into cocktail culture as well as simple mixed drinks. So I think that's a lot of the key to the growth we're seeing and just the versatility and the taste profiles.

Damian Fowler (08:36):

Now that the campaign's out there, you did hit on some of these obviously, but are there key signals and metrics that you look to on your dashboard? As it were,

Sophie Kelly (08:45):

Our consumers had watched over 190 days of content. We got up to 9 billion impressions, which is pretty extraordinary. And what I'd say is lots of chat about AI and is it going to take over. I think the beautiful combination of cultural collaboration with talent, the right kind of elements in the experience to create talkability and then utilizing tech from a generate insights about the communities and how we're going to combine them and what they need in the experience to also distribution, right? Taking the influencer content, taking the bartender content, taking the experience content and amplifying that out to further bigger audience was critical on distribution.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:34):

Sophie, can you tell me whether there is a market or a moment that delivered the most surprising engagement or maybe taught you something new out of this whole campaign?

Sophie Kelly (09:46):

One of the most surprising stats was just how many hours of content our consumers consumed on the campaign because it was so engaging, right? The other thing I'd say is as she traveled, she went into global duty free, she signed bottles, she met consumers, and that exploded as well. So I think one of the surprising things for us was this relationship started in Singapore and then we cultivated it and then we were able to scale it globally, but also make it extremely local to that market.

Ilyse Liffreing (10:30):

So Sophie, from your perspective, and here's your big impression here, how are those broader cultural shifts really influencing the way Diageo approaches brand building in the tequila and mescal space?

Sophie Kelly (10:46):

You must create experiences that allow what we like to talk about, which is accessible luxury for people to engage in. So when you think about this, we created the baby mini Peggy Goo bottles, which are 50 ml bottles, and you can access the taste of the experience. I mean, I think formatting is a really simple way of doing it. I think inviting people in to experiences at multiple layers and letting them access a world that they may have sought was out of reach is super important when you're creating experiences. And then I think giving them little artifacts from that to carry through that represent that something special that represents the experience they were able to engage in. I

Damian Fowler (11:36):

Want to ask you, this is a very important question. What new drinks around tequila are available now? Are you seeing pop up?

Sophie Kelly (11:43):

I think you said it, the Negroni, the espresso martini. We're even doing old fashions with tequila, and that is a real result of, versus people thinking about tequila as just blanco or mixed in a margarita. We have this huge explosion in aged tequilas, which are really sourcing from whiskey moments and rituals as well as kind of the versatility of tequila.

Ilyse Liffreing (12:14):

So Sophie, you've worked across several iconic brands. What's one lesson about cultural storytelling that stayed consistent throughout your career?

Sophie Kelly (12:22):

Work with people who love your brand. Listen to what's happening with your brand and culture, and then add to that, enhance the experience. Don't interrupt it and don't make it up and don't play where you don't have a right to play. Is there a

Ilyse Liffreing (12:37):

Non Spirits brand that you admire right now for the way it connects with people emotionally or culturally?

Sophie Kelly (12:45):

Labubu. Have you seen these things? Oh yes. Yeah, they are little kind of monster icons that everybody is hanging off their bags. I just love it.

Damian Fowler (12:53):

A final question I think is what's your favorite drink?

Sophie Kelly (13:00):

You know what? I am a Don Julio or a Casamigos Reposado on rocks with a slice of orange. I love my 1942, but so they're mine.

Damian Fowler (13:16):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:18):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

Damian Fowler (13:25):

And remember,

Sophie Kelly (13:27):

Work with people who love your brand. Listen to what's happening with your branding culture, and then add to that, enhance the experience. Don't interrupt it and don't make it up and don't play where you don't have a right to play.

Damian Fowler (13:41):

I'm Damian and I'm Ilyse, and we'll

Sophie Kelly (13:43):

See you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode of The Big Impression, we’re joined by James Rothwell, managing director of brand marketing at Kinective Media. Rothwell walks us through what’s changed since launch — from major brand partnerships and custom content integrations to a headline-making alliance with JetBlue. With over 110 million traveler profiles and 63 million MileagePlus members, Kinective is fast becoming one of the most compelling new players in commerce media.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:01):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian Fowler (00:02):

And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:09):

Today we're checking back in on one of the boldest moves in airline media, connected media by United Airlines as they've redefined what's possible in the world of Traveler Media Networks.

Damian Fowler (00:22):

Our guest is James Rothwell, managing director of brand marketing at Connective Media. James and his team are helping United leverage the power of 110 million traveler profiles, create new opportunities for brands across the entire customer journey.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:38):

We actually spoke with Connective on this podcast just last year and just a week after they launched. A lot has happened since then from major brand partnerships to rapid innovation in tech content and measurement, and today we're catching up on what's new. So let's get into it.

Damian Fowler (00:57):

So James, this time last year, United had just launched Connective Media. It was June, 2024 at CAN, and it was the first airline media network. Could you walk us through what's happened since then? How has the network grown? How has it attracted brand campaigns and how is it working?

James Rothwell (01:20):

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you Damian, for having me on. This is great to be here. We just celebrated our first birthday, which is a wonderful thing. We're engaging with so many different types of brands who are interested in reaching a premium traveler audience. We've seen some success in most of the key verticals that you would imagine, and then some surprising ones too. And obviously it's a slam dunk for a travel brand or a destination brand, but those non-endemic brands, the non-endemic advertisers who are trying to reach travelers, no matter where they are in their journey or even in between journeys, we're finding really interesting use cases, really interesting targeting options and ways for them to be able to reach them across all of our screens. And on,

Damian Fowler (02:08):

Let's get into it a little further. Can you give us some examples? And you mentioned non endemics as well, but maybe we could start with the endemics and then move on to the non endemics.

James Rothwell (02:17):

No, absolutely. I think travel as a category is a growth sector right now. I think ever since the pandemic, people have been looking to explore the world and get out of the, I mean, they were cooped up for quite a while there, and so travel's never been more popular. Like any industry, you've got to break through the noise and the options that you have out there. Right? World's a big place.

(02:43):

Luckily we fly to a lot of different places. We have over 330 different destinations. One really interesting case study that we've just completed was with the Cayman Islands tourist board, and they were looking to drive passengers travelers to the Cayman Islands, and they worked with us across all of our media, and we were able to do closed loop attribution based on the bookings that were then made to those destinations. So for us, measurement and measurability is incredibly strong in the travel sector and the travel space. We were able to see basically with Cayman Islands, that 9,000 bookings came from exposure to the ads that ran across email, across our club lounges and in our entertainment seat back screens on the planes. So we were able to drive awareness, intent, and then conversion, and we were able to track that and they saw a 13 times return on an ad spend against that campaign. We were incredibly happy with that. They were incredibly happy with that. We obviously made some travelers very happy to go enjoy the wonderful blues ocean around the Cayman Islands.

Damian Fowler (03:58):

Yeah, there's something nice when you see that on screen. You're

James Rothwell (04:01):

Like that, I'm going to go there. Yeah, that looks nice. That one sells itself. It

Ilyse Liffreing (04:05):

Does. So you mentioned non-endemic brands too. That's really interesting.

James Rothwell (04:09):

Yeah, I mean, we're all travelers, right? We all got on a plane to be here in Cannes. It doesn't define us, but certainly it helps to give context and potentially insights around who we are as individuals and what we like to spend our money on where we like to spend our time. And so that translates into a really interesting audience segment for different brands. So we've had a lot of luck and a lot of success with luxury brands who want to reach, especially front of plane individuals. B2B brands has been a real boon for us as well. Business decision makers, they're looking to find those individuals and we can find 'em on the planes in the clubs and through different digital channels as well. And so that's been a really interesting sector that we've been able to really capitalize on, and I think they've been able to see some significant growth on that. And we work with, for example, JIRA, which is an Atlassian product, and they did a full omnichannel activation with us and they saw some fantastic results there.

Ilyse Liffreing (05:16):

Very cool. Could you describe that a little bit more, how, I guess you worked almost in a custom way, it sounds like With Jira

James Rothwell (05:26):

For that one was very custom. In fact, they had their own branding moment and wanted to use some of that branding and creativity and plug it into the inflight entertainment screen. So we created a custom channel for them with curated content behind it, which then obviously gave them a branding moment and an opportunity to drive their messaging with more engagement. So that was a very custom moment, but also an opportunity for us to do very targeted work to find the right audience members throughout the journey.

Ilyse Liffreing (05:56):

We spoke with Mike Petre on this podcast just about a year ago, A week after you guys

James Rothwell (06:02):

Launched. That's right.

Ilyse Liffreing (06:03):

It seems that you're moving fast and obviously moving on to things like custom solutions and everything like that. What else is new in the past 12 months

James Rothwell (06:12):

Where to start? We've been bringing on a significant amount of partners, not only on the technical side, but also on the content side. So most recently we did a deal with Spotify. We're very excited about that partnership. Again, from a content perspective and an engagement perspective, that gives us a whole new set of ways and deeper engagement from people while they're on the planes. It's also an opportunity for a loyalty aspect of that as well. And we'll talk a little bit about how Mileage Plus comes into our overall offering, but if you sign up for Spotify Premium, there's a Mileage Plus component to that. We are the first airline to offer audio books and video podcasts within our planes. There's a lot going on in the loyalty space. We are working with many partners to be effectively integrated into our loyalty program with that will also be a media component as well. So this marriage of loyalty and media together is been a real, it's been very successful in terms of not only helping to drive awareness of those campaigns and those opportunities for Mileage plus members to convert, but also to drive media value for those individual brands. So Vivid Seats is another recent partner of ours where we are able to give mileage plus members the opportunity to earn miles as they buy tickets to entertainment. But you can imagine a world where for those types of companies, we know where those individuals are going to

(07:41):

At those destinations. Those companies know how many seats are available at a particular location. Can we match that data and make really customized targeted advertising campaigns to say, okay, we see you're going to Vegas, here are some seats available when you get there. So that opportunity of matching data with our partners from a targeted perspective and then a loyalty perspective is really limitless in terms of what the opportunity is there.

Damian Fowler (08:08):

Let me just ask you, partnerships like this seem hugely valuable in this space. What else are you seeing?

James Rothwell (08:15):

One of the partnerships that we're super excited about is a very recent announcement with JetBlue. We will be working with JetBlue in a number of different ways. Again, loyalty will be a component of that where we are able to, a JetBlue customer can use United Miles to fly on JetBlue and vice versa. There will be a component that will extend to airport and gate availability down the road. There's a commerce play part as part of that where JetBlue will be powering commerce for us for ancillary products like hotels, cruises, cars, et cetera. And then where it's very exciting for the Connected Media group is that we will be effectively selling JetBlue audiences under the connected media roof that will sit alongside our United Media and United audiences. So the combination of that obviously is a scaled audience across different geographies where JetBlue is stronger in the northeast where we are not as strong. So very kind of complimentary in terms of the audience. And that obviously from an advertiser perspective is great because that's more scale. It's one less phone call to make in a world where there's 280 different media networks that kind of consolidation or rather that opportunity to create an airline audience at scale. We think there's massive opportunity there, and we're talking to a number of other airlines about that opportunity.

Damian Fowler (09:36):

And when you talk about at scale, you've got 63 million mileage plus members, so that's a

James Rothwell (09:42):

Serious, yeah. And 174 passengers over the year. I think JetBlue is around 40, so

Damian Fowler (09:49):

74 million. Yeah.

James Rothwell (09:50):

Yeah, 174 million. And then you add 40 million of JetBlue you're getting up there in terms of hundreds of millions of audience members that we can now get in front of. That's a serious proposition.

Ilyse Liffreing (10:00):

Yeah, it's a great partnership really in a lot of ways. Almost a surprising one too, because you guys are competitors but are also helping each other out in ways. And

James Rothwell (10:13):

Again, it's a very complimentary partnership. I think they're strong in places where we don't have the same coverage. And so it works from that perspective. At the airline level, I think what's most interesting for me is we think we might be the first commerce media player to bring a, I wouldn't even call 'em competitor. I would call 'em a pier,

(10:35):

A pier into the garden. And this is not a walled garden. This is an anti-Wall garden straight. We've built this technology stack purpose built for the airline. We've built it so others don't have to. And we think by bringing more individuals and more airlines into this world, and it could extend to travel partners more broadly than just airlines, we think all boats will rise. I should probably say planes will fly, but we think there's value in, again, creating scale, creating efficiency for buyers, and ultimately sort of making the whole thing a little bit more streamlined.

Damian Fowler (11:14):

Yeah, yeah. We like that idea that especially when we look at advertisers and media buyers, the idea that everyone benefits from partnerships like this, so it's not like we're it locking you out. That idea of opening up, it's the value prop for media buys is huge.

James Rothwell (11:35):

Yeah, it's very new. So we're still figuring out all of the logistics. It'll start on the back seat screens and offsite, how we merge those and deduplicate those audiences through technology partners like LiveRamp is still being figured out, but we're very excited about the proposition and we'll start selling offsite later in the year. And then moving on to Seatback screens in 2026.

Damian Fowler (12:01):

Now, you did mention some metrics here, but we're just going to press you a little further on that. One of the virtues of Connected Media networks is that ability to tie back purchases to customers and some of the campaigns or partnerships you've mentioned. How is that working? What kind of visibility do you have?

James Rothwell (12:20):

So we work with a number of different measurement partners, Kantar di nata. We've just started working with Adelaide, which is an attention based measuring partner. And recent tests on that is looking pretty good. You can imagine we do have people literally strapped in by their seat belts and the screen is right in front of them. So the viewability is pretty strong, the attention is very strong too. So we're able to prove, obviously, that as an extension of television, whether you call that a CTV or digital out-of-home screen, it's a very compelling proposition for a brand, and it's an opportunity for them to tell stories on a pretty dynamic canvas. But yeah, we work with a number of different measurement partners. We continue to expand those partners because we believe that while we can choose ones that we think are good, that's not always going to be everyone's first choice. And so we want to be able to create flexibility and brands and agencies to bring their own partners to the table. And so over time, we'll integrate more and more of those partners so that again, measurability and measurement is enabled for all in the ways that they want.

Ilyse Liffreing (13:29):

Very cool. You were talking about how connective is offering omnichannel measurement. Are there any surprises that came out of that analysis so far?

James Rothwell (13:41):

Yeah, I think some of the insights that I've been most intrigued by have been around what I call the traveler mindset, this idea that individuals may act a little differently when they're in the middle of their journey. And a couple of reasons for that hypothesis. I think if you think about maybe you are a business traveler, your company's paying for your flight, your hotel, probably a little bit of your food if not all, while you're gone. I think people think they've got a little extra change in their pocket. Maybe they'll feel a little bit more open to advertising, open to brands being part of that journey and maybe even convinced that they should go out and actually spend some money on that brand. Obviously there's always the opportunity for those people who've got their sunglasses and making that a purchase in the airport, but I think it goes beyond that. What was really intriguing though for me was we did some analysis around business travelers and noticed that business travelers are actually more likely to respond to advertising than leisure travelers, which for me was a little counterintuitive because I thought business travelers might tune that out given how frequent they are. They're more likely to be frequent flyers, right?

(14:54):

But I think they may be a little bit more attuned to the environment they're in as opposed to maybe a leisure traveler or AER traveler who's going with their family and they're having to look after the kids. They're a little distracted, or maybe they're zoning out because they can't wait to get to the beach or back home, but the business traveler is a little bit more tuned in. And so I think that's why we've seen so much success with B2B brands because of that insight and that response.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:24):

And to me, it does sound like there's B2B brands are having kind of a moments, and I think this is across all categories, but it sounds like you're seeing that too, that B2B brands are even driven to the plane beer.

James Rothwell (15:40):

Yeah, I think in general, B2B marketing as digital has matured, B2B marketing looks a lot like B2C marketing. There's not a huge amount of difference. And brands, there are business brands that really invest a significant amount of money in that brand. And you don't have to look too far from across the sports world to see how many brands are investing in high profile sporting events and wanting to reach influencers and business decision makers. I think we have a great audience for that. So I think we are another choice for brands to be able to engage with them.

Damian Fowler (16:14):

Quick question here. On that note, do you have any brand partnerships with sports teams

James Rothwell (16:18):

At the United level? We do. We work with a number of different teams across the nation, obviously usually associated a lot more aligned with our hubs where we have a lot more exposure. And so yeah, lots of different professional sports teams. And then obviously when it comes to things like NCAA tournaments, we do a lot of fun marketing around that. If your team unexpectedly goes all the way, you're going to have to hop on a plane, well, we can figure we help you out with that, or you can cancel your flight and don't worry about it. We will take care of you if your team crashes out.

Damian Fowler (16:55):

Moving on here, to zoom out a little bit and look at the landscape, the big picture, as it were from, should we say 30,000 feet? Let's do it. Terrible. I love it. You wouldn't believe how many plane analogy Canal. Get the pun every, I'm sure you can every day. Lemme ask you for your favorite plane analogy at the end of

James Rothwell (17:10):

Something,

Damian Fowler (17:11):

But you've likened connectives personalization to Netflix's style recommendation engine, but with rich signals as more brands enter the traveler media space, and we don't necessarily have to name them, what do you see as United's distinct advantage?

James Rothwell (17:28):

I'm going to highlight another partnership here because I think it will illuminate the audience on where this is going. So we announced our partnership with starlink recently, and we are scaling starlink out across the fleet. That will take some time because we have to take those planes out of rotation, install the hardware, but we did a recent test and got hardcore gamers and hardcore streamers, and we were doing shopping and testing it, and they were literally trying to break it and they couldn't break it. And it was absolutely flawless super fast. That is a game changer because now you can do everything on the ground at 30,000 feet. And there's been a lot of questions about, does that mean we're going to have to take Zoom calls on the planes? And the good news is no, I think you can listen, but I don't think you can talk. So that's kind of the rule there. But yeah, we had people FaceTiming with their moms on that flight, but the reason I bring that up is because that is going to effectively create a whole world of hyper-personalization that just wasn't possible before. The technology that again exists at zero feet will be at 30,000 feet. And so you think about what that means from an advertising perspective, every screen becomes addressable. We can do programmatic delivery against those

Speaker 4 (18:53):

Screens

James Rothwell (18:54):

And we can create shoppable moments, brand integrations. It unlocks a huge amount of content opportunities as well. Now you can stream live sports, you can stream anything you want on the ground in the air. So that's where I think we already have an advantage in that we have an amazing audience, an omnichannel offering and hours of attention. We're going to supercharge that attention with incredible content and amazing brand integration opportunities and advertising opportunities.

Damian Fowler (19:25):

We have these rapid fire hot seat questions. You're not strapped in or anything, sorry. Terrible. Another airline analogy. This is one we like to ask. What is it that you are obsessed with figuring out right now about the marketplace you're in?

James Rothwell (19:40):

I'm obsessed with, I think just continuing to find out more about the audience that we get to engage with every day. I have the pleasure of not only being head of marketing for Connected Media, but I also mileage Plus. And so I'm curious every day about how I can understand more about our loyal customers, how we can enrich their experiences with us and enrich their lives more broadly. Because again, it doesn't stop with the journey from others. How do we engage with them in authentic and compelling ways in a very noisy media marketplace, but also try and get them to continue to think about Mileage Plus and the airline on a more regular basis, not just when they have to travel.

Ilyse Liffreing (20:29):

Yeah. What would you say is missing from the market and needs to be solved?

James Rothwell (20:37):

What's missing from the market? I don't think it's missing. It just needs to continue to evolve, and that's measurement. I think no one's cracked the code. It feels like every time we get close, the move a little bit, and as more and more first party data driven networks crop up, it becomes more and more relevant for us to solve the attribution game. And I think even when I understood retail media networks to be the answer to all of that because of closed loop attribution, my understanding is that is still not figured out. That's not still solved. And if retailers who operate at that lower end of the funnel and point of sale haven't figured it out, then that's challenging for the industry because we've got a long way to go still.

Damian Fowler (21:21):

You mentioned you had a favorite. Do you have any favorite airline? Do you have any favorite airline analogies or even jokes?

James Rothwell (21:29):

I try to avoid the jokes because that's a tricky one. No, I think a lot of what I talked about today, we were excited to announce it. We're still building, so I would say we're still building the plane while we're flying it.

Damian Fowler (21:42):

That's a good one. Yeah.

Ilyse Liffreing (21:42):

Yeah, we use that one all the time.

Damian Fowler (21:46):

In the business, it works very well.

Ilyse Liffreing (21:48):

Bad worlds, I would say.

Damian Fowler (21:54):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Ilyse Liffreing (21:56):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by Love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

James Rothwell (22:03):

And remember, we did some analysis around business travelers and noticed that business travelers are actually more likely to respond to advertising than leisure travelers.

Damian Fowler (22:15):

I'm Damian. And I'm Ilyse. And we'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This week, we’re talking to Ryu Yokoi, chief media and marketing capabilities officer for North America at Unilever, about Dove’s “Hot Seats” campaign — a bold, culture-hacking activation that shows up where the sweat is real and the stakes are surprisingly high. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler, and welcome to this edition of The Big Impression. Today we are talking about how Unilever is breaking taboos, opening up new kinds of conversations and connecting with consumers in some unexpected places. Our guest is Ryu Yokoi Chief Media and Marketing Capabilities Officer for North America at Unilever. We're going to dive into DO'S Hot Seats campaign. It's a bold effort to normalize conversations around full body freshness and engage people across both digital and real world spaces. We'll be talking about how this campaign's activating across concerts, social, retail, and digital platforms. So let's get into it.

Ryu Yokoi (00:46):

It always starts with understanding our audience and also try to make our products really relevant and desirable in that context. And so the hot seats are originated from social listening within the community. And in particular, one of our, actually her name's Dana Pucci, who leads our PR and influencer work on Dove for North America is a big Charlie XCX fan. And she noted that the Incredible Sweat tour, which was driving and kind of owning the culture last summer in the brat summer, that was

(01:21):

Unfortunately the Sweat tour smelled not great. And it turned out that Charlie and Troy Sivan were going to be performing in Los Angeles the week before the launch of our new whole body deodorant. We kind did a takeover putting our product in the bathrooms. We sent in creators to sort of experience what a show is like when you can make sweats smell great. And the results were kind of magic because we got just unbelievable. The UVC on this and the Delight with folks attending a concert that actually smelled great was really fascinating, just fantastic response. And that week we had a really great launch of the product, first hitting the digital shells on Amazon and doing great.

Damian Fowler (02:02):

That sounded like a very fast activation for a campaign.

Ryu Yokoi (02:06):

It happened literally within 10 days.

Damian Fowler (02:08):

What was the war room like for that 10 days? How did you strategize to get that done?

Ryu Yokoi (02:14):

We always emphasize we want to build worlds instead of chasing moments. So when you have an idea of what you're trying to build with the brand, how you show up, then it becomes a lot easier.

Damian Fowler (02:25):

And tell me a little bit about the tone. I mean, one of you mentioned the humor element of it. Why is that real talk, that humor so key to Dove campaigns?

Ryu Yokoi (02:34):

Well, I think there's a real authenticity that the brand has earned. We say, oh, it's an authentic, it's only authentic if people believe it. The brand is really comfortable in its own skin. We have a sharp understanding. I think that goes beyond a positioning statement to really understanding what this brand stands for, how it shows up in real life, what it would be like if you were to meet it and still be consistent in our building of that brand means to people.

Damian Fowler (03:00):

Yeah, I mean, I've got to say I live in New York and I've noticed the campaign on the New York, out of digital, out of home subway screens and it just totally cuts through and I noticed it. And of course you're standing on a New York City platform in terrible heat, humidity, and everyone's sweating. It's like a perfect placement.

Ryu Yokoi (03:19):

Well, I would say the subway work you've seen is really telegraphing that benefit, right? If you're blessed to be next to somebody who's wearing dove on the subway, then wow, this is a good ride. We've sponsored Charlie's spring tour and we're also showing up at other festivals like Lollapalooza, which have just provide another canvas for us to tell the story.

Damian Fowler (03:38):

Is it a case that once the campaign's out there in the wild, it builds its own momentum? Or are you actively trying to find new events, new points of pop culture? Kind of.

Ryu Yokoi (03:47):

That's exactly what we're trying to find, right, is we understand that if we're able to actually become part of the discourse, we're not just broadcasting ourselves in, but actively playing a role and helping people. And we had a similar case where the first weekend of Coachella people were again, lamenting unfortunately didn't smell great, and in this case somebody not us posted saying, well, I wish Dov would come and help here. We really had a lot of fun with it. We flew a plane over Coachella the second week saying, the cavalry's coming help is on the way we hear you need.

Damian Fowler (04:24):

That's good.

Ryu Yokoi (04:25):

Some help. And we're going to be there. We lined up folks around the entrances so that folks could kind of get freshen up on the way into the show or get freshened up, and more than a thousand people took advantage of that.

Damian Fowler (04:35):

Now, I wanted to ask you about some of the key signals or early reads on the campaign. I'm sure you're paying close attention as you evaluate the impact. What do you look for on your dashboard, as it were?

Ryu Yokoi (04:47):

Right. So I think first and foremost, you're right. Measurement is the most important

Damian Fowler (04:54):

Thing.

Ryu Yokoi (04:54):

But first and foremost, we did this the week before we were launching the product. So the first signal was did we turn well? And we

Damian Fowler (05:02):

Did.

Ryu Yokoi (05:02):

And the ramp on the product was really terrific. But I think to your point, it's really important no matter what the channel that you're playing in, what are the leading indicators that we can correlate with performance? In this case, it was one where things happened so quickly and we knew there was literally nothing else happening when we did this, and so we were able to isolate that way.

Damian Fowler (05:23):

Are there other channels that you are kind of thinking about or could be targeted for the campaign?

Ryu Yokoi (05:31):

In principle, I want to be able to capture signal everywhere. For me it's just around understanding where are people discussing whatever it is that we're trying to get into the discussion on and being authentic there. So for us, Reddit is a channel we haven't used as much in the past. Certainly now I find it increasingly of relevance for us. So we're trying to build up a skillset there,

Damian Fowler (05:55):

Especially

Ryu Yokoi (05:55):

Given how important it is with ais. Right.

Damian Fowler (05:58):

What about audio? Is that

Ryu Yokoi (06:00):

Podcast? Absolutely podcast. So

(06:03):

I would say, again, this was highly before it became something that we were rolling out in real life. Oh my goodness, the word is spectator events. Before it became something we were doing in real life as spectator events, it was a highly music driven campaign because we had decided to reboot this classic hip hop song from a few decades ago. And so it was already sort of music oriented and had played that way. But yeah, so for us it's exactly to your point. If we're talking about something that we're doing that's focusing on music or spectators, obviously audio is going to have relevance. Where are Charlie's fans actually discussing this? It turned out it was happening on Reddit. We go there, where are they discussing their experience at the concerts? We were seeing a lot of chatter on TikTok around that. And so we moved there. So we try to be nimble and agile and really be where the discourse is happening.

Damian Fowler (07:07):

So we're going to zoom out a little bit and just look at the big picture of the landscape beyond the campaign. But as you think about where culture is heading, whether it's wellness, inclusivity, or body confidence, what does the campaign kind of tell us about where Unilever wants to go with its brands or its kind of messaging wants to put out into the marketplace?

Ryu Yokoi (07:27):

We're all about building desire for our brands at scale. So we want to engage with communities wherever they are. It's about having a deep understanding of who our shopper is, what is driving desire for them, who influences them, and how we can really engage with them and create a discourse where we can try to move towards many to many communication.

Damian Fowler (07:49):

One of the big challenges for Marcus is balancing the long-term brand building with the short-term sales results. And do you think that there's a tension there right now in a marketplace that's very much dialed into performance?

Ryu Yokoi (08:01):

Listen, I think that it's really important that you have the right measurement in place and that you can understand both the short-term and long-term effects of the investments that you're making. That's something we really pride ourselves on. We want to be the most outcome oriented advertiser in the marketplace. But the other thing I would say is that more and more data signals and shopability are making it so the funnel is collapsing and we're nearing places when it comes to QR or having true shopability in stream where even executions that in the past would've been considered the most upper funnel can actually drive a transaction in that moment. And I think a future of that's really exciting.

Damian Fowler (08:40):

So finally, we're going to get into some of these hot seat rapid fire questions here.

Ryu Yokoi (08:44):

Okay,

Damian Fowler (08:44):

So you ready?

Ryu Yokoi (08:45):

Yes, let's go.

Damian Fowler (08:46):

Alright. What's one thing you're obsessed with figuring out right now?

Ryu Yokoi (08:50):

We've been talking about how much we've built out resources in this area and all of the interconnections that the data allows us to make. That implies campaigns that become more and more complex and much more complicated to just flight even. And so one of the things that I'm obsessed with is how we simplify that. There's so much change happening to accommodate all of this stuff. So really my big focus right now is on how we make working in this digital landscape easier for everybody involved in it because the amount of choices that we have and the richest is never ending. And so just making that more sustainable.

Damian Fowler (09:32):

I love that. That's a great answer. What's missing from the media and marketing marketplace that you'd like to see?

Ryu Yokoi (09:39):

From a Unilever standpoint, we have a few direct to consumer brands that are able to sort of track the media journey all the way through to conversion, but in the bulk of what we sell in traditional, fast moving goods are moving through retail. So what's missing is some way to penetrate that clean from a data standpoint so that those of us brands that aren't doing DTC can have that all the way through. We manage that well today with leading indicators and fast signals, but there's I think even more richness out there for us if we're able to correct that.

Damian Fowler (10:15):

To bring this kind of full circle outside of CPG, is there a brand that you think is doing a great job connecting with culture right now?

Ryu Yokoi (10:22):

Yeah, so I would name two. One that we really admire is Lego. I just see the way that they have both made their products, both a vehicle for other brands to build their worlds while also building incredible worlds for themselves. So they've become kind of this almost currency within the way that so many other brands are trying to build their IP in the world. So whether it's like a Formula One drop a Star Wars drop a Harry Potter drop, these things each have so much hype around them and they've learned while doing that so that they're able to propel their own ip, which is really impressive to me. So the other, I would say we had a fantastic opportunity to work with this year as crumble cookie. They were dove soaps, deodorant, lotions that were fragranced inspired by crumble flavors. And so in partnering then we were able to build off of that and make our soaps, our body washes, our deodorants, one of the drops of the winter. We struggled to keep it on shelf. So I'm a big admirer of the work that they've done too.

Damian Fowler (11:27):

That sounds cool. And then final, final question here. So in Unilever kind of portfolio of brands Dove Ben and, and the goal has always been to spark conversations, that's how we started this conversation. I guess I'm wondering if you could share a moment that reminded you of the importance of that brand led cultural impact that you can have.

Ryu Yokoi (11:51):

Oh wow. There's so many, but I'll give Dove so that we can show the other side of the coin because we've been talking about a campaign as I was saying, that shows a more playful side, the humorous side of the brand, but one of the areas the brand has focused over the past few years, and we just celebrated 20 years of the Dove Self-Esteem program, and Dove is one of the leading providers of self-esteem education in the world. I think actually we give the most annually self-esteem workshops. And one of the areas we focused recently is body confidence in sport. And so we partnered with Nike a few years ago to do research on the topic of young women in sport. And what we discovered along with them was that young women as they reach their teen years, are dropping out of sports at an alarming rate relative to guys.

(12:41):

And the chief reason is body confidence is feeling comfortable in your own skin wearing the kinds of outfits that you're wearing when you're playing sports. And so we set out to, together with Nike, actually develop a curriculum for coaches, which is the Body Confidence Sport curriculum that literally teaches coaches how to talk to young women about their bodies in ways that are positive and not discouraging. And so we've now been leveraging almost Trojan Horse, our participation across the big game. Our role as a sponsor of March Madness, we activated it last year with em, Navarro at the US Open really across major sports temples. We've just signed our first kit sponsorship of Gotham FC in the New York, New Jersey area of the Women's Professional Soccer League. And we're partnering with them also where they have a program called Keep Her in the Game. That's all around keeping young women in the New York, New Jersey area, staying, playing soccer. And so all of this focused again on trying to create a platform where we can talk about this and encourage people to go and learn about this curriculum. And the most encouraging thing. A really long-winded answer to your question,

Damian Fowler (13:58):

That's great.

Ryu Yokoi (13:58):

What struck me was we were looking back at the research and our spots in the big game have generated really good discourse the past couple of years. Really positive response from folks who've been inspired, not just by the ads themselves, but also I think this year we were one of maybe only a handful of brands that delivered a purpose message in the game. The really encouraging is the group with whom it resonated the most was Girl Dads, right?

Damian Fowler (14:26):

Yeah.

Ryu Yokoi (14:26):

The very guys who are probably coaching on the weekend who probably need to know more about how to speak to these young women and keep them comfortable and inspired playing. So it's stuff like that that makes me see all the time. As I was saying earlier, for us it's around how can we show up, how can we add value? How can we actually help the community? And when we do that, then we build trust and then we can have different kinds of dialogues with people and they really know who we are.

Damian Fowler (14:54):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression. This show is produced by Molten Heart. Our theme is by Loving Caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns. And remember,

Ryu Yokoi (15:03):

I think there's a real authenticity that the brand has earned. We say, oh, it's an authentic, it's only authentic if people believe it.

Damian Fowler (15:12):

I'm Damian, and we'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

B2B marketing has long been stuck with a somewhat boring reputation: rational, buttoned-up and forgettable. Tim Hoppin is on a mission to change that. As chief brand and creative officer at SAP, he’s helping one of the world’s largest software companies embrace big creative swings — and prove that business buyers are humans too.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler (00:00):

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:02):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And welcome to this edition of The Big Impression.

(00:09):

You might be wondering, wait, what? Isn't this The Current Podcast? I'm here to listen to brand marketers talk about the highs and lows of their brand campaign. I know I am. Well, rest assured, we've just had a little bit of a brand refresh. We're now the big impression, and

Damian Fowler (00:27):

That's official shout out to our creative team for the new name, which I really love actually.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:32):

So without further ado, let's kick off this new season with a great guest.

Damian Fowler (00:39):

And today we are delighted to be joined by Tim Hoppin, the chief brand and creative officer at SAP.

Ilyse Liffreing (00:45):

Now, SAP makes software that helps big companies run everything from payroll to supply chains, all in one integrated system. It was recently hailed by brand Z as a 23rd most valuable brand on the planet.

Damian Fowler (01:00):

And no doubt, some of that's thanks to Tim. He's a brand builder who spearheaded the tech company's recent B2B campaign, unstoppable, which was shortlisted at this year's Cannes Lion, and that's where we sat down with him. So we're going to start out with this sort of philosophical frame. Ryan, you have said that a brand must influence everything a company makes, says and does. Could you explain that philosophy a little bit?

Tim Hoppin (01:29):

Yeah, sure. I think a lot of people even just kind of reduce it down to branding, like the colors and things like that and maybe the expression a little bit. But the way I think about a brand transmits meaning to people, and it does that through lots of different formats. So when I say what a brand is, what you make, you're actually affecting the service or the product that you're actually delivering to the world. So my classic example is Harley Davidson. Those motorcycles don't use plastic and they do that very specifically because they want the brand to be expressed a certain way in products. And then when I say a brand is what a company says, that's your marketing, your communication, and then what you do is your activations, your choices on what kind of companies you're going to invest in and so on and so forth. But it's all three.

Ilyse Liffreing (02:25):

Yeah. Can you walk us through your recent SAP campaign, which I believe is called Unstoppable?

Tim Hoppin (02:31):

The campaign was built to communicate a new way we're going to market with our products, which is bringing together all the different parts of the software that we make. We tie together, we call it the SAP Business suite, and we're dramatizing it with sort of metaphors that bring it to life. For instance, sometimes if you're in business and you're in charge of something, like being head of it could feel like you're literally underwater. So we recreated what literally happens when the entire office goes underwater. So we filmed the entire office submerged underwater, and people are trying to go about their business. And of course at the end we introduced our product, which kind of drains it and gets things back to normal. And another example, sometimes when you're trying to innovate, it's like an uphill battle. So you start off and the entire building tilts on its side and we kind of go in this metaphor world where the COO is trying to march up a hill and things are coming at her and she's trying to dodge it. So they're all metaphors that we can kind of associate, but they're also very real stories. Every one of 'em is based on an actual customer story.

Ilyse Liffreing (03:47):

Very fun. What would you say are the key consumer business insights behind this campaign?

Tim Hoppin (03:54):

Yes, because purely B2B, our research is a little bit, you have to be more precise in getting those insights. So a lot of it has to do with doing interviews because there's not like a survey you're going to send out to a bunch of CFOs or CEOs and they're going to respond. They're pretty busy people. But we can do other things like get some individual interviews. We do quant studies as well as well, but it's easier to get real insights when you actually talk to real people. So more like anthropology research, I'd say, than sort of traditional marketing broad surveys.

Ilyse Liffreing (04:35):

Some people might say that emotional storytelling and B2B business campaigns are almost like a oxymoron of sorts. Is that at a conundrum would you say,

Tim Hoppin (04:51):

How many times have you seen a piece of content that's using just stock imagery talking about functional stuff and you just ignore it? And so there's this perception that that's what everybody wants and does. We are seeing a renaissance in B2B where emotional, strong, insight-driven work is what works. And so I think you're going to see more and more of that as people realize that it actually is more effective.

Damian Fowler (05:22):

It's interesting to me that the B2B is being put out on what you might consider consuming channels. I'm just curious to hear your take on why that was important and basically how did you activate this campaign and where did you want to put it?

Tim Hoppin (05:38):

Yeah, so our media team and working with their agency took the brief that we're trying to do two things. We're trying to both lead people that are maybe in market ready to buy, lead them into our ecosystem and get in touch with our salespeople. But we also recognize that SAP as a 50 plus year old company has some perceptions out there and we need to constantly reeducate the marketplace about who we are, what we stand for, and then also present ourselves to the next generation. 71% of all B2B buyers are either millennials or Gen Z, 71%.

Damian Fowler (06:20):

Wow, that's a amount.

Tim Hoppin (06:22):

Yeah, it's a lot. So to become and stay relevant, even as the world's largest enterprise software company, you can't rest on your laurels. So some of those media tactics, like being in airports or some television buys in very targeted ways is designed to get broad enough reach so that we can get people familiar with us and start to understand what we stand for so that when they're ready to buy, they're not just hearing about us for the first time. And then of course we're looking at the real data, what's happening out there? Happy to say that all of our creative work has got five stars, or hybrid is the highest you can get the system one, we're beating every industry benchmark. And then in market, the performance that we're seeing in the market is also way above all of our benchmarks. So we're excited because as we like to say, if creative doesn't work, it's not working.

Ilyse Liffreing (07:14):

Was there an insight that you say you took away?

Tim Hoppin (07:18):

I had a strong hypothesis that there would be some disruption just from visually the way the campaign is presented, especially the films. I think the thing that's really surprised me as we did our research, what a chord. It's striking with people. There's one comment that came through just from the qual study that we did where people were saying, you finally get me. Not only is the content visually arresting, but emotionally resonant, people really feel seen. And to your comment earlier about like, Hey, B2B is seen as traditional and there's such a, I'd say a traditional and sort of safe approach to just use business people doing businessy things and boats and cars moving fast and satellites flying by the camera and putting a logo at the

Ilyse Liffreing (08:14):

End. I've seen that one. Yeah.

Tim Hoppin (08:15):

Yeah, I've made that one unfortunately. But to really take this risk and tell interesting stories that are based on real human insights and have emotion and are disruptive and have the very people that we're trying to reach go, thank you, thank you for seeing us, telling us a story that's different. I have this saying, if you want to be disruptive, you actually have to disrupt. And so there's also sort of a hungered SAP, we have to reinvent ourselves. We are in our product and our go-to market. And so the brand platform that we created over the last three years, now this is the next level, is taking the campaign higher. So I think we're on this momentum of transformation, and so it just felt natural to do it. And the way we're investing the does part's also coming true, frankly, the way we're investing in AI and kind of transforming what's possible from a 50 plus year old company. It's exciting.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:12):

Let's talk a little bit about ai.

Tim Hoppin (09:14):

Yeah, sure.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:15):

On that note, how are you guys investing in AI and what do you foresee

(09:16):

Damian Fowler (09:23):

Creation play? Yeah, as a creative person, do you feel threatened by it or

Tim Hoppin (09:26):

Not at all.

Damian Fowler (09:29):

Jump on your question. That is the question.

Tim Hoppin (09:31):

Yeah, it's the question of the week. Big question. It's come up so much. Actually, I was talking about this the other day.

Ilyse Liffreing (09:35):

You're probably tired of people talking about it.

Tim Hoppin (09:38):

No, I actually think what's been really refreshing is two things, always the first part of your question, which is as a company, we are basically transforming into a data and AI company. I think pretty much anybody who's going to survive has to do that. So we've made software for 50 years, but what all the companies that run on our platforms, it's the data that's the most valuable part, of course. And so the AI that we've developed is allowing people to run their businesses completely different ways. So we're investing in that as a creative person.

(10:14):

We're also starting to experiment with ai, for instance, trying to understand how people might react to our messages. I don't think that AI is going to replace creatives, but I think creatives are going to have to change. So you're going to have to act more like a director than a executor. I remember when I started in the business a few years ago, 25 ish, I remember the people who were still laying down typography by hand and everything. Every piece of printed material was proofed. The proofs would come into the agency and people were looking at it. And so all those people's jobs changed. And that's all this is. Human creativity will not and cannot be replicated, but it will require us to get better at being creative and know how to use these new tools.

Ilyse Liffreing (11:10):

Yeah, that's a great answer. We've transformed so much in 25 years. It's kind of baffling

Damian Fowler (11:18):

Completely. Yeah.

Ilyse Liffreing (11:19):

So you're an agency guy. It does seem that B2B is getting better. Is it because of all these agency folks moving in? How?

Tim Hoppin (11:30):

Yeah, I think so. We're seeing, look, the agency world has changed and is contracting in some ways and it's really tough, but also it's creating opportunities for those same creative talents to move. And so it becomes a, I'd say rebalancing. I remember early in my career if you worked in a in-house agency, it was sort of looked down on like you're just not good enough for a real creative job, which was totally mean and not nice. But that was the perception. And now it's completely not that Some of the best work that's being produced is coming from in-house agencies. So you're seeing a migration from, and frankly, it's caused by clients. So clients are reducing what they're willing to pay agencies, which puts economic pressure on the agencies and they have to downsize. And then those great talented people need to pay their mortgage and put their kids through college and they're coming in house. And so my team is almost exclusively on my creative group, our exag agency people. And that's what I am too. And so that actually makes us better clients so we can work with our agencies and we know how to work with them and who they are, and sometimes we even know them from past lives. So it just makes the work better all around.

Ilyse Liffreing (12:52):

Is there anything in the creative realm that you're looking at or data about creativity that you think brands should co-op for B2B campaigns?

Tim Hoppin (13:05):

Yeah, I absolutely, interestingly, as we've seen this sort of spike in the AI chatter and everybody talking about it and sort of wringing their hands about what it's going to do for our jobs, there's been sort of a pushback in a really healthy way where people are saying, actually no humanity and really putting AI in its place, which is, it's just another tool. Yes, it's going to disrupt jobs. That is a true statement 100%, but it's not going to replace human creativity. And so as I said before, that reality is getting people back to what's important, which is storytelling, human storytelling, creativity, finding those interesting combinations that only humans can do. And that's where you're starting to see that come to life in B2B marketing is that, I said it earlier, I think it's a bit of a renaissance and a not cheesy way.

Ilyse Liffreing (14:05):

We have some last minute Rapid, rapid and fire, fire.

Tim Hoppin (14:08):

And this is your home

Damian Fowler (14:08):

Stretch. Oh yeah, stretch. Stretch. Is there anything, Tim, that you're obsessed with figuring out right now?

Tim Hoppin (14:17):

Yeah, how to keep getting better. It's like I love seeing what people can do and I want to use new tools and new solutions. And so I'm trying to figure out where's all this AI stuff going to go and where's it going to be helpful? And how do you avoid the pit of generic communications that is a real threat from ai?

Ilyse Liffreing (14:44):

Did you have a favorite Cannes moment that made you stop and say, wow?

Tim Hoppin (14:49):

Yeah, I was in line for a session and there was a group of young lions, and this one kid, he had to be maybe 18, maybe 19, he still has his braces on, and he was so excited, so excited to be there and to go in. And I've been really worried that our industry doesn't have the next generation coming up. And I saw this kid and I was just so relieved that this kid was as excited about the start of his career as I was when I started. I mean, I would fall asleep with award animals to learn how to do this stuff better and that you could feel the energy from this kid. It was awesome.

Damian Fowler (15:39):

I'm so happy that a lot of students come to Cannes.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:43):

It is great. It fills your heart. Yeah, it does. It does.

Damian Fowler (15:48):

Last one.

Ilyse Liffreing (15:49):

So who beyond SAP, who else is doing B2B brand work very well in your view?

Tim Hoppin (15:56):

Well, GoDaddy won the Grand Prix for, I thought, a really fun piece of work, and it's targeted to small business, so I think you can be a little bit more courageous than sometimes we get to, but I just loved it for its wackiness and just audacious. And then also the way that they really just kind of carried across different mediums. The thing that was the best about it was they're trying to make the case for starting a small business, and they literally did that with a celebrity. It was brilliant.

Ilyse Liffreing (16:41):

And that's it for this edition of The Big Impression.

Damian Fowler (16:44):

This show is produced by Molten Hart. Our theme is by Love and caliber, and our associate producer is Sydney Cairns.

Tim Hoppin (16:50):

And remember, 71% of all B2B buyers are either millennials or Gen Z.

Damian Fowler (16:57):

I'm Damian. And I'm Ilyse,

Tim Hoppin (16:59):

And we'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.