The Big Impression

Foxtel Media CEO Mark Frain dishes on how the customer and advertising experience are shifting amid the proliferation of streaming.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

[00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damien Fowler.

[00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

[00:00:02] Damian: And welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast.

[00:00:05] Ilyse: This week we're delighted to speak with Mark Fra, the CEO of Foxtail Media.

[00:00:10] Damian: Foxtel Media is the advertising arm of the Foxtel Group, one of Australia's leading media companies, with more than 4. 7 million subscribers.

[00:00:19] Ilyse: Like many legacy broadcasters, over the last decade, Foxtel has reinvented itself for the Netflix era, building on its pay TV subscription model by adding in streaming platforms such as Binge and Kayo. It supports streaming services.

[00:00:35] Damian: And last year, Foxtel introduced an ad tier on the service, following in the footsteps of Netflix and Disney We started by asking Mark about the state of the television advertising model in Australia this year.

[00:00:46] Mark: Yeah, I mean, I think like the rest of the world, the TV market here in Australia is, going through significant change with the growth of, all of the streaming platforms with many of the, add tiers and add capabilities starting [00:01:00] to, launch in the Australian marketplace. Probably what is pretty unique, in terms of the Australian marketplace is that there's currently three major freeware broadcasters that all have their own, digital, platforms as well.

[00:01:14] so they're managing transition from linear to digital themselves, but at the same time you've just got this enormous groundswell of video inventory coming from the streaming player. So we're, certainly getting towards a tipping point in the trends in the Australian TV marketplace at the moment.

[00:01:31] Damian: Mark, could you just, put into perspective the growth of streaming that you've seen at Foxtel?

[00:01:41] Mark: Foxtel has been on an enormous transformation for last four or five years. And if I look, probably four or five years ago, just under 10 percent of our subscribers were streaming customers. And if I look at where we are today, that number is just under [00:02:00] 70%. So a quantum growth in the type of customer we've got.

[00:02:04] And critically, what that has also meant is that in the last four or five years, the Foxtel customer base Has grown pretty much close to 100 percent from where it was previously, and that's all been down to, the growth of streaming. And secondly, if I look at it from a Foxtel Media, advertising perspective.

[00:02:27] And probably only three years ago that seven or eight percent of our advertising revenue came from digital. As we go into the next financial year, that number will be just under 60%. So we're the beneficiary of that change in customer base from Foxtel, from traditional broadcast TV business to one now that is, is leading and driving streaming the Australian marketplace.

[00:02:51] Damian: Yeah, in terms of Foxtel, could you talk us through your relationship between, your existing linear model and [00:03:00] your launching of an ad tier on Binge?

[00:03:03] Mark: Yeah. So traditionally, Foxtel has been the, major pay TV provider. In the Australian marketplace, with numerous, linear channels from sport, entertainment, news, all the typical, pay TV channels you would have, coupled with, two digital platforms, Foxtel Now, that have really been the IP services of Foxtel.

[00:03:26] And then over the last four to five years, the Foxtel Group. Has launched heavily into streaming. Firstly, it launched KO, a dedicated sports streaming platform with over 40 premium sports, including both the major codes locally in Australia and a lot of the global content like Formula One, as an example.

[00:03:50] About 18 months, two years after launch of KO, we then launched Binge. which is K. O. 's sister if you like, entertainment [00:04:00] platform backed by a lot of HBO, NBCU, content. So, made a significant jump, into streaming in the last three to four years. And that has allowed the Foxtel group to pretty much double its subscriber count, from being a traditional pay TV company to now one that plays heavily in streaming.

[00:04:19] Damian: You know, in the streaming ecosystem, which we all know is highly competitive, right now, everyone's looking for subscribers and numbers, what's the competitive advantage that Binge brings to the table?

[00:04:32] Mark: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I mean, number one, it's enormously competitive. I think table stakes now are a premium level of content. unfortunately from the global content producers that we work with, coupled with our local content, I think we've got a significant library of content that has debt. I think if you, scratch the surface on some of the content offerings, you don't get the depth of premium content.

[00:04:59] On [00:05:00] Binge, we've been very strict on running Four to five minutes of ads an hour on very tight on frequency capping just to make sure that, we give those customers that are buying into the value equation of subscription and advertising a very good customer experience, which includes both the content they're watching and also the advertising experience.

[00:05:22] Ilyse: would you say Binge competes with other streamers when it comes to like content acquisition, production, and then maybe like ad experience?

[00:05:33] Mark: Yeah. I think we're fortunate enough, that the way that almost the origins of the Foxtel pay TV business has given us relationships and longstanding content relationships with the likes of NBCU, Warner Brothers, Discovery, the BBC group, et cetera. So many of the big globally renowned, media businesses.

[00:05:59] [00:06:00] So that has allowed us to transition a lot of that content from the traditional pay TV channels. onto an on demand platform like Binge, and then we've been a significant investor in local content. So we've been able to both produce a number of Binge originals but at the same time leverage the existing local content we've already produced across the Foxtel group. Almost, I mean, we often describe it internally as one kitchen with many restaurants. and by that, I mean by the many different points of distribution, whether that be a linear paid TV channel, or whether that be a binge, on demand platform.

[00:06:45] so we talk a lot about, watchability as a term in our business and making sure that every platform that we represent, that the ad experience stacks up to be the most watchable experience for customers.

[00:06:59] Ilyse: And does the [00:07:00] content you have speak to specific audiences? Or are you finding that your audience is really across the board?

[00:07:11] Mark: There's no question. I think that's the beauty of the streaming platforms that various elements of kind of content bringing a very different audience. And we're in the streamer landscape, you're we're in this very much pause play mentality from a customer perspective. So if that content is so appealing for customers, they may come in.

[00:07:35] And binge on that content for X amount of weeks or months and then dip back out.

[00:07:40] Particularly with the under younger end of the market that come in and out and then maybe into another streaming platform where they've cited another bit of world kind of renowned content that's got heaps of social buzz with it.

[00:07:52] Ilyse: Mm hmm. Yeah, right? That's what I was gonna say.

[00:07:56] Damian: I think. Not to malign as a Gen X er. As [00:08:00] a millennial, I'm not

[00:08:03] Ilyse: anything. Um, and so, that's interesting when you talk about, content in that way. and that has a lot to do with, viewer retention, as you mentioned. Is there anything else that, Foxtail is envisioning or, strategizing? to really hold onto those viewers or attract new ones.

[00:08:25] Mark: Yeah, I mean, I, I think from our perspective, we've gotta, we've gotta continue to evolve, the customer and product experience. There is, there's not a moment to stand still in this streaming environment. whether that be improving the. The viewer quality from HD to 4K to 8K. I think customer expectations are so high.

[00:08:50] And whatever we do, in terms of the content experience and the ad experience, we just got to make sure that total value equation, stacks up.

[00:09:00] Ilyse: Yeah, you know, in the U. S. at least, bundling is very popular. especially if you're a major network like Disney that's bundling like three different of its like streaming services. What about when it comes to like partnerships with you guys? Are you looking into any of those types of offerings when it comes to like bundling?

[00:09:22] Mark: Or, or are you looking to like partner with any network or streamer? , is kind of partnership is embedded in our model. whether that be, as I mentioned before, that the content partners, the Warner Brothers, the NBC use, of this world. So we've had a long standing relationships and partners with them moving forward and going back to the earlier points upon the value equation.

[00:09:49] even in the core, Foxtel set top box business over time, we've continued to add, all of the streaming platforms to that service, whether it be Netflix, whether it be [00:10:00] Amazon, whether it be Paramount. So, customers have felt they were getting more of their content choices, more of their streaming platforms in, in one place.

[00:10:10] So there's been a level of partnership with the streamers right from the outset even, with the core set, top box business, and we've carried that on, to where we are. today, in the last, few weeks we launched, Hubble, which is our, new streaming ion business. and within that, platform we've got a stack and save, opportunity for customers where.

[00:10:33] to your point on bundling, the more subscriptions they have they get a bottom line discount and I think there's so many customers out there I put myself in that bracket that you sign up to numerous streaming services and half the time You don't know exactly how many you've got and how much you're paying for.

[00:10:50] Um, so we've actually centralized that into One platform, one invoice, with a stack and save, kind of discount position for customers that have multiple [00:11:00] streaming options. So partnership is embedded in our model, no question.

[00:11:03] Damian: Yeah, that's

[00:11:04] Ilyse: easy. I wish we had that here, honestly. Because there's not one, really.

[00:11:08] Damian: Yeah, right.

[00:11:09] Ilyse: Kind of have to look back on everything you're charging, and that's, your card, and that's, that's

[00:11:16] Mark: it doesn't take long for months to pass and realize you're still paying for Yeah,

[00:11:24] Mark: In terms of like your kind of customer research or, your audience first approach, what are you hearing from your customers vis a vis, ads, the ad, not the ad experience per se, but whether, ads are a game changer for them, you know, in this era of kind of subscription fatigue and all of that.

[00:11:43] Damian:  Are customers receptive to that ad load you're talking about and is that basically a selling point for Binge and your streaming channels when it comes to advertisers and attracting advertisers to those platforms?

[00:11:57] Mark: in everything we do from a, [00:12:00] an advertising perspective to, respect our customers. We've got a very, customer first mentality within the Foxtel group. It's one of our, it's one of our values. And to your point, we test, the various levels. As I mentioned earlier, engagement and attention to our customers.

[00:12:17] in terms of their level of response to the content and the advertising. And we kind of, we've seen their perceptions of, the binge brand hold really strong as we've added advertising to that platform. And you've got to look at the economic backdrop here. disposable incomes are under significant kind of, pressure, the hike in interest rates globally over the last.

[00:12:43] 12 to 18 months have put enormous pressure on household spending. So I think the introduction of the ad tiers, not just the binge, but for a lot of the global players has been a, another, kickstart to, subscriber [00:13:00] growth levels, across the industry. And it just gives customers optionality.

[00:13:06] and probably what was interesting When we added advertising to the binge platform, clearly we've done some modeling on what might be the churn levels of customer out of that tier and what might be the spin up into the next tier without advertising. And in both kind of cases, number one, the actual churn level in terms of those customers pulling out the platform was well under expectations.

[00:13:39] in the zero point something kind of percent and a handful of more customers of spun up. So net, we were left with a scalable audience, even probably bigger than we actually modeled for our advertisers. So it was a really good story. So I think the research got us in the right place in terms of the ad experience we put forward.

[00:14:00] Ilyse: I know we've written quite a bit about how, like, streaming is democratizing, sports in a way for, maybe perhaps, smaller brands to get in on sports, versus in a linear environment where it's, More expensive, usually. is that what you're experiencing? Is there a difference in brands wanting to advertise on linear versus streaming? Or, and how is that like playing out?

[00:14:25] Mark: it's a good question. A lot of our, premium brands have transitioned into streaming at the same time to ensure they've got. Yeah. Brand presence and share a voice across both live linear and into streaming, but you're right that there's no doubt it's given opportunities for smaller brands to get on board and be involved in live sport, which historically may have been, cost prohibitive.

[00:14:52] and what I would say in almost summary of that trend, we've, on our, major [00:15:00] sporting, properties here in Australia, whether that be the cricket, whether that be the AFL or the NRL, which I've already mentioned, in the last couple of years, we've had a record number of advertising partners on all of those kind of codes.

[00:15:12] And that's been the blend of those big premium advertisers that have always been involved in sport, that have had the financial bandwidth to do so. Plus, A multitude of new brands that have come on, streaming. So we've got more, if you like major sports partners than you've ever had before.

[00:15:30] Ilyse: I feel like it's also pretty interesting because when it comes to live sports streaming kind of offers an environment where, I don't know you can watch them at any point. For one thing, and then two, we've, at least we've written about how some more like niche sports are appearing in streaming environments, versus linear, and I'm curious what you think about that. Pickleball.

[00:16:01] Mark: Great example. very timely, actually. last night I was, fortunate enough to be out with, wheelchair rugby Australia. and as an example, we brought, their content onto the KO platform, probably four years ago now. And what that has done to that code in particular, it's allowed them to grow exponentially in the number of teams that now play wheelchair rugby in the Australian marketplace, the number of participants they've got.

[00:16:36] the number of females that are now playing it, and across those three or four years, the quality of that team has meant that they've been able to, they've won the World Cup, they've won the World Championships, and they're off to, the Olympics, later this year.

[00:16:53] So, outside of the big ticket, sports, It's also great to show the impact you could [00:17:00] have on other sports that wouldn't be kind of, that aren't out there of competing for sports rights. It's a very different model about how you support them and their corporate growth moving forward.

[00:17:12] Ilyse: know, it, it seems, even in Australia, it's a very fragmented media ecosystem. How are you thinking about measuring audiences, especially now with the rise of, alternative currencies? what's, the Aussie gold standard,

[00:17:31] Mark: it's a fascinating question and I, myself and my team spend a lot of time, observing, reading, going to the U. S., the U. K. and observing the trends. And over the last probably three to four years, I mean, there has been a An explosion of alternate currencies in the U. S. when you look at the likes of, video amp and others taking the challenge to Nielsen, we observed that.

[00:17:56] And whilst I don't think we're going to get to the [00:18:00] same level of different currencies in the Australian marketplace, I think you will see, publishers Probably grab the accountability of measurement themselves. moving forward. in this market, we've got, post town, which is a kind of, Nielsen supported, service and from a Fox sale perspective, we're part of that.

[00:18:24] Industry standard, but we also recognize that we've got, set up box data with IP return path. We've got multiple streaming platforms. So a there's a role for us to make sure We leverage, that data probably more than we ever have. and that's not just to use it, internally in terms of retention and everything else you use your own data for.

[00:18:52] But how do we actually use that for not just targeted advertising? How do we use it as a currency [00:19:00] moving forward? Because the depth of that data is so strong.

[00:19:05] Now, While you were stating some of the various partnerships that you do have. And I'm just curious because it sounds like so many. how do you possibly manage all the partnerships? Especially with Foxtail's, yearly roadmap. I

[00:19:24] it's a great question. I think, fortunately, a lot of, the content deals that the Foxtel business has is, Number one, they're multi year agreements, and therefore, the actual, the start and renegotiation dates, a lot of, a lot of those content deals are spread out across multiple years, so that gives us an opportunity to probably manage the heavy lifting part of those deals, which is often the renegotiation, and the work to move forward to continue a deal.

[00:19:58] [00:20:00] But I think, this is not just, on the content side, this is certainly on the advertising side. One piece of feedback that we continually we get and probably more so than ever right now is the importance of senior relationships in the industry. Never have we seen probably an influx of such scale in terms of global streaming competitors coming to the market, particularly on The advertising and add to your side.

[00:20:35] And one thing that I think we can, that can continue to stand the same good state is the senior level of relationships that we hold in the industry. And that's not, that's not exclusive to Australia. I think that's in any market. and that's one part that. We take very seriously in terms of how we manage, our partnerships, whether they be content or advertiser [00:21:00] related.

[00:21:00] Damian: I guess we'd like to get a perspective of your, year in view. what's exciting you about the next six months?

[00:21:09] Mark: I think going back to the point of kind of competition, we'll have, Amazon Prime will launch, its, advertising service, from a streaming video perspective later this year. Um, Paramount Plus have just announced the launch of their, ad tier. So there's enormous activity and interest in the category.

[00:21:29] So our focus is number one, to be part of that growth curve in streaming video, if not leading in many, many areas, and probably one of the areas that I'm being truly honest, I wouldn't have forecast that it. Thank you. our involvement as a business, whether that be Foxtel Media or me personally, in audiences and in measurement, I've never been as personally involved, in that area.

[00:21:59] And [00:22:00] I think there's a, there's an opportunity to get that right. and most importantly, getting that stands us in great stead for future growth. So seeing an explosion in both currencies and measurement, attention, engagement, and new metrics. So that feels like the new battleground for us moving forward and one that from a Foxtel perspective, we want to make sure that we lead.

[00:22:27] Mark: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned.

[00:22:33] Ilyse: The current podcast theme is by Love and Caliber. The current team includes Cat Vessey and Sydney Cairns.

[00:22:39] Damian: And remember I'm Damian.

[00:22:41] Ilyse: I'm Ilyse.

[00:22:42] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:22:47] Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.

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Chief Marketing Officer Kory Marchisotto joins The Current Podcast to discuss why the makeup brand e.l.f. Beauty decided to air a Super Bowl ad, and why other female-driven brands are missing out.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

[00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler.

[00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffreing

[00:00:02] Damian: welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast.

[00:00:05] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Kory Marchisotto, the Chief Marketing Officer at e.l.f. Beauty.

[00:00:11] Damian: Now maybe I'm the only one here, but I didn't realize that the word elf stands for eyes, lips and face. The brand was launched in 2004 and it filled a gap in the marketplace for inexpensive, high quality cosmetics. 

[00:00:26] Ilyse: Twenty years later, and e.l.f. has become a powerhouse brand. It went public in 2016, and since then has seen spectacular growth. Its sales soared last year, driven by retail channels and some seriously buzzy marketing.

[00:00:42] Damian: We started by asking Kory, what gives the e.l.f. brand the edge in this very competitive marketplace?

[00:00:50] Damian: So Kory, how do you think of the e.l.f. brand in this very competitive field? And what's your competitive advantage as it were?

[00:00:58] Kory: I like to think about [00:01:00] e.l.f. as a brand of the people, by the people, for the people, created with the people. And for that to be true, we need to be totally in tune and have our finger on the pulse of what the people want, what they like, what are their unique needs, wants, and desires. So we really think about ourselves as stewards of our community's vision of e.l.f.

[00:01:22] And that's a very unique place to be standing. How much value and emphasis we put on that community. They're, citizens of the brand. They have a vote, they have a seat at every table, and that is by definition, a very unique competitive advantage.,

[00:01:41] Damian: speaking of competitive advantage, you've had tremendous, stupendous growth over the last five years. And I'm just curious to hear from you, what is supercharging this?

[00:01:51] Kory: Over the last five years, we've grown our stock price. 1, 567 percent to be exact, [00:02:00] making us the number one performing stock on the New York Stock Exchange out of 1, 600. and 15 companies. So I think that definitely deserves your tremendous stupendous.

[00:02:11] Damian: Okay, that's good. That's good. And what do you think, if you had to put your finger on two or three factors, what is it that is driving this upward, curve, as it were?

[00:02:24] Kory: There's quite a few things and in the essence of time, I'll distill it to the three I think are most important. But for your audience, I think it's really important to go back to the beginning to understand the ethos of the brand, because it's the ethos that powers the purpose that powers the people, That power the performance.

[00:02:42] So if you go back to the origins of elf in 2004, let's remember at this time Facebook hadn't launched yet. iPhones don't exist. Imagine this. Can you wrap your heads around that?

[00:02:56] And So so we're back in the dark ages folks [00:03:00] and our founders dreamt up the impossible and made it happen. So they had this crazy idea that they could create premium quality cosmetics And sell it for one dollar over the internet.

[00:03:13] So everybody told them, first and foremost, you cannot create premium quality cosmetics and sell it for a dollar. That's impossible. Second, you certainly can't sell color cosmetics over the internet. And third, even if you figure it out how to do number one and number two, you'll never make this a profitable business.

[00:03:30] And aren't we glad that our founders disrupted from day one. So they have this renegade spirit, this bias for action, this quest to do the impossible.

[00:03:42] One is our core value proposition, our very unique ability to deliver premium quality cosmetics at a jaw dropping value. The second is our powerhouse innovation,

[00:03:55] And then the third is our disruptive marketing engine.

[00:03:58] So our core value, [00:04:00] proposition, our powerhouse innovation and our disruptive marketing engine are definitely the drivers of our last 20 consecutive quarters of growth.

[00:04:08]

[00:04:09] Ilyse: I'm curious about your out of box marketing because you guys are known for that. You really are. how did you cultivate this approach when you came on board as cMO?

[00:04:20] Kory: at that time, there were some major shifts happening in the company.

[00:04:25] So, Every company goes through various stages of growth, especially in a 20 year history. And the stage that I had walked into was a transformation from investing in retail. into marketing. marketing and digital, so when I started the company in at the onset of 2019, we were investing 7%. Of net sales into marketing and digital. Fast forward. We are now up to 24%. So you can see that there's a big investment in the power of the brand and building brand equity and building Brand [00:05:00] evangelism and all the things that we've been able to do over time.

[00:05:02] So we see that as an enormous responsibility to make their time worthwhile.

[00:05:08] It's interesting you call yourself an entertainment company. Or you see yourself as an entertainment company. And I would assume like The new digital channels that you play in have really helped you become such a company in this day and age, especially if you're selling something to consumers online, in stores, etc. To extent would you say digital channels have really opened up these possibilities to you? And I guess, channels do you like playing in the best?

[00:05:45] We love all our channels equally, right? It's like our children. We love all our products. We love all our channels. I see all of our channels as learning opportunities. And the most important thing to remember is that they're all there to teach you [00:06:00] something different. And even if it's the same person who's coming to see you on Instagram and TikTok, they're actually on each platform for a different reason. So it's critical that we understand what is unique about the platform itself and what is unique about the reason that the person is coming to the platform. And that gives us a unique set of experiences and learnings.

[00:06:26] So I think you see the pattern here that every time. We enter into a new platform. We go in with a beginner's mindset. We ask ourselves, how do we create something that is going to add a tremendous amount of value to the people that are here on the platform at the intersection of what it is that we do great. So it's really always this trifecta of beauty, culture, and entertainment. And we're bringing the best of all three to the communities on each platform.

[00:06:56] Obviously you're known for your social media strategy, like [00:07:00] with this partnership with Liquid Death, but this year you also ran a national Super Bowl ad for the first time, which is always exciting for the first time for a brand. this one featured Judge Judy and cast members from Suits. So a little nostalgic on one hand. Can you talk about the strategy here? You obviously went into the humor category. What was the thinking behind this Super Bowl ad?

[00:07:27] So there's this big conversation in the beauty space about dupes and your audience can't see me, but I'm making quotes because that has really ignited this entire conversation about people talking to each other about judging for all sorts of things in, the beauty space. So we started to see this conversation really take off, especially around price and people judging each other for, paying for overpriced makeup. So then we looked at what was happening in culture and [00:08:00] entertainment, and there was courtroom drama taking off everywhere.

[00:08:03] Suits had its best year of viewership. Judge Judy was the number one program on Amazon Freeview. You had all things happening with Ronald from jury duty. so it was just this incredible cultural moment of all this courtroom drama coming together. And we said, well, that's pretty outstanding.

[00:08:23] There's a lot of drama about judging and makeup injustice happening in the beauty world, and there's this incredible moment of courtroom drama happening over here. So once we tuned into both of those things, then we said, Okay, now let's put our head in the

[00:08:38] stars and dream what could be possible. And only e.l.f. could dream big enough to say, what if we actually got the cast of suits? What if we actually went and got them? Judge Judy, what if we actually went and got Ronald and put him in our jury box? And these are really big lofty dreams, and that's how we love to operate at e.l.f.

[00:08:59] [00:09:00] So that was our first national spot, which we decided to do after we tested the year prior with a regional spot. And when we had done the regional spot the year prior, it had broken every record we could have ever imagined, which was the signal that we needed to tell us to lean in even harder.

[00:09:23] Ilyse: And if I'm not mistaken, that one also had some star power in it with Jennifer Coolidge. One of my favorite actresses

[00:09:31] Kory: major stars of that campaign, Jennifer Coolidge and Power Grip Primer.

[00:09:36] Ilyse: Yeah. What did you guys learn from the regional ad, specifically, if there are any lessons?

[00:09:41] Kory: So we had never done a TV spot before at that time. So to your earlier point, we grew up in digital or a digital native brand. When we started to invest larger dollars into marketing and digital, we expanded all of our digital platforms. [00:10:00] First, we learned all about creating short form, medium form and even longer form entertainment content. So we had been building that muscle over time, and we also saw that our awareness numbers were rising and we wanted to fuel the awareness and open the aperture to more audiences and expose more people to the magic of Elf. we decided to take Jennifer Coolidge and Power Grip Primer to the biggest stage that there is, which is the big game. And our hypothesis was on that particular stage, women were being underserved. you have at that time 115 million people viewing the big game, of which 75 percent said the number one thing that they like about Super Bowl Sunday is The commercials. So you have a highly engaged audience and 50% of that audience is women.

[00:10:58] So by every metric, it [00:11:00] was massively successful.

[00:11:02] Ilyse: That is very interesting. Especially because this year, women's sports, women's live sports, are definitely, on the upswing. And there's, it seems to be, like, more brands want to partake, more, networks want to show women's sports, more streaming, platforms want to show women's live sports.

[00:11:24] curious. If you intend to partake in any like women's specific sports in the future and how might that impact the e. l. f. brand?

[00:11:37] Kory: We're very excited about women in sports, and we've been in the arena for quite some time, and we believe very strongly in supporting This initiative and empowering young women to not only engage in sports, but also stay in sports. I don't remember the exact stat off the top of my head, but there is a large amount [00:12:00] of young girls who drop out of sports at a very young age, and we really want to work together with powerful.

[00:12:07] Women in sports to change that. So we've actually been working together with Billie Jean King, who is an extraordinary legend not only in tennis, but in multiple sports as well as in women's equality at large and Working together with her has been incredible. We're supporting her women's National Hockey League And when you start to get around all of these young women and watch their, watch them unleash their incredible talents and support them along their journey, it's real fuel to want to go further and deeper.

[00:12:45] We're also, we also worked last year with Catherine Legg, who's a female driver at the Indy 500. So there's a lot of bold. Disruptors like a Billie Jean King, like a Katherine Legg, that [00:13:00] we will continue to work with to empower women in sports.

[00:13:05] Damian: One thing you said earlier that was really interesting to me is that you really listen in to your community. And, when you launch initiatives like this, is this, do you see this as part of a sort of feedback loop that you tap into? And I'd just be curious to hear more about that audience first approach and that whole concept of listening.

[00:13:24] Because I haven't heard that from every marketer.

[00:13:27] Kory: I think it's fundamental and it's a service approach. And as I said earlier, when you're a brand of the people, by the people, for the people, you have to create with the people. This is their brand, not mine. I'm here to steward it for them. I'm here to shape it with them. So the only way I can do that is by listening very intently.

[00:13:47] And a lot of people in my position rely on reports. I've seen reports. I don't want to have a relationship with reports. I want to have a relationship with people. So as the CMO of the [00:14:00] company, I'm probably more connected to our audience than anybody in our company. And the reason I do that is to make sure that they're with me in every room I go into, whether it's the boardroom, or the C suite, or every meeting, I am there as a representative of them.

[00:14:17] And again, I take this back to, they're citizens and I'm their representative. And I'm here to legislate on their behalf.

[00:14:26] Another thing that I do is I go on TikTok lives And have direct conversations with them, especially if something surfaces. So for example, it was surfaced to us that our community was very unhappy that we had taken one of our limited edition collections off the market. And that was called Jelly Pop.

[00:14:45] It was a watermelon infused. And I was really curious about that because we had replaced it with Power Grip Primer and the reason we did that is very similar formula. The reason we did that is because we heard a lot of people say that they [00:15:00] didn't want to have fragrance in it. So we're like, okay, well, why don't we make it unscented? They love the sticky texture. We'll create this thing called Power Grip Primer and, it was wildly successful. But we still had this undercurrent. No matter what post we did, people were like, bring back Jelly Peps. Primer and I'm like, I need to understand more about this. So I went on a TikTok live to understand what is it that you don't have that you want and We really got under the hood to understand that it was an obsession with the texture, the format, and the scent.

[00:15:32] They wanted it pink and they wanted it watermelon. So, so once I found that out, I said, I, really appreciate you. Thank you for. Sharing your vote with me on what it is that you want next. Well, now you're going to need to come on a journey with me because it takes a lot to move a product through an organization.

[00:15:50] So I took our head of innovation and he was the next tech talk live, then our head of operations, our CFO. And then if they were convincing enough, which they were, they finally [00:16:00] got to the CEO. So our CEO came on tech talk live for our community to convince him to bring back jelly pop primer. And he folded in like 60 seconds. he saw the exclamation points, the capital letters, the, the nonstop thread, there was like 5, 000 people and they were all like, bring back jelly beans. It's okay. I'll bring it back over into 60 seconds. Done. So I think you get, I tell you that story because I think it gives you a unique flavor of how committed our organization is to the people we serve.

[00:16:31] Our CFO and our CEO are bringing our community to those Conversations because they're directly involved with them and they have their own stories to tell about the magic of that community.

[00:16:42] So, they're basically recognizing that they are a citizen of our brand.

[00:16:49] Damian: I love the, the way you talk about citizens of, the brand. it's a really interesting way of looking at the fan base, the customer base, or however you [00:17:00] would, [00:17:00] describe it

[00:17:00] Kory: Yeah, I don't love the word customer or consumer, because it signifies that you're only here to buy from us versus being a part of the thing that we're doing. And what I love about Citizen Is it showcases that you have a vote, that you have a vested interest and a deciding power in the thing that we're actually doing.

[00:17:23] And I don't find any other word that captures that in the same way. So they are citizens of e.l.f. and they do have a voice and they do contribute to everything that we do. 

[00:17:38] Ilyse: about that citizen journey, there is quite a relationship between e commerce and in store experiences for you guys. How do. you leverage? your online audiences and then follow those citizens from app to store.

[00:17:56] Kory: What's really important for us is to recognize that it all [00:18:00] needs to be fluid. So if you think about all of the possible touch points, some people are on 100 touch points, some people are on 10, some people are on 1. The important part is for them, it's all one world. They're seamlessly going from Our Roblox game to the floor of Target to our app to our website.

[00:18:25] So what we need to do is make sure that we have an organization that [00:18:29] reflects that level of fluidity and that we don't have any friction points between those zones. So everything that we do has to be fluidly integrated across every touch point. So if we think about corpse paint, for example, we light up everything 360.

[00:18:47] It's going to go. Live on our website live on our app. We're going to make sure that there are, uh, you know, social across all of our social channels. We're going to light up our live stream and we had rooms [00:19:00] in Roblox. So we basically see this as every time we turn on an activation, we turn on every switch across our entire ecosystem so that wherever you're interacting with our brand, you're finding a consistent thread throughout.

[00:19:18] what are your priorities for 2024? What would you say is your guiding principle?

[00:19:24] We go where our community takes us. And if I just take you on a quick journey of that, we didn't end up on TikTok in 2019 by accident. There was a hashtag of cosmetics that we didn't create that we had nothing to do with that three and a half million people were showing up to every day, which was basically them calling for us to be there.

[00:19:46] We're hearing a lot that they want more from us in that regard. We actually did a pep talk series where it was all about these mini confidence boosts that we could bring to women. So [00:20:00] what's most important for me is not me making a decision or our teams making a decision about where we should go next, but rather going where our community guides us.

[00:20:11] So you're going to continue to see us. On that path?

[00:20:15] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned.

[00:20:20] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love and Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesce and Sydney Cairns.

[00:20:26] Damian: And remember, I'm Damian.

[00:20:28] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse.

[00:20:30] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:20:35] Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

ADT’s EVP and CMO DeLu Jackson joins The Current Podcast to discuss how the company’s partnership with Major League Baseball’s Miami Marlins reinforces the impact of live sports. Jackson also touches on why the marketing funnel isn’t so much a funnel anymore as it is an “infinity loop.”

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

[00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler.

[00:00:02] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffering. And

[00:00:03] Damian: welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. 

[00:00:06] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with DeLu Jackson, EVP and CMO of ADT. [00:00:12] Damian: The home security's brand synonymous with its blue octagon logo, seen on front lawns and in windows across the United States, is turning 150 years old this August.

[00:00:28] In all those years, ADT has seen its customers needs fluctuate, technology has given more power to individuals, and the inconsistent housing market is turning out more renters than owners.

[00:00:40] Damian: Delu starts out by telling us what messaging the brand is leaning into as it reaches a new milestone 

[00:00:49] Ilyse: DeLu, ADT is celebrating its 150th birthday in August. That little blue hexagon basically has been known for a long time and signs in front of front [00:01:00] yards and windows across America.

[00:01:02] How has the brand continued to evolve and how is the brand leaning into new messaging?

[00:01:15] DeLu: you know, monumental 150th birthday. And for us, that's a really great testament as much to all the things we've accomplished in that 150 years. But more importantly, what it means for the next 150 years, because all of that's been driven by a consistent commitment to innovation, insecurity, safety and now even smart home.

[00:01:38] So it's been the evolution of the definition of what it means to be safe, protected and connected. and for all of our history, we've been focused on making sure that we're the leader and providing that to our, customers. 

[00:01:54] Ilyse: and I understand there's even like a new campaign coming out soon? 

[00:01:57] DeLu: Oh, yeah. So part of this [00:02:00] innovation and this even history of it is recognizing that from our consumers always that, every second counts, right? That when we think about what we're doing, there's this tension between, living your life to the fullest

[00:02:14] and having the opportunity to travel and do amazing things because the things that you care about are protected.

[00:02:21] And so this idea that when every second counts, you can count on ADT and really always have is really exciting for us,

[00:02:29] internally And externally. 

[00:02:31] It's such a Great manifestation of what we've always been and what we aspire to provide, going forward. 

[00:02:40] Ilyse: On that note, I remember even like five years ago I wrote a piece for Ad Age about how the brand underwent a marketing transformation to drive the message home that ADT is much more than a home security provider. With your smart home integration and your mobile security options for small and large businesses.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] How has that, moved the needle forward. 

[00:03:02] What would you say is the perception of the brand today? 

[00:03:05] DeLu: say the perceptions continue to evolve and I'd say that the one great thing is that the foundational relevance of safety and security are still  super high for so many consumers. It's what they need. And as the space has evolved to  be more smart home and connected devices and, video and cameras, we've continued to provide that and customers are programming and our messaging have continued to reinforce that. with partnerships and with our continued platform innovation to provide those capabilities. So it's been a big part of our continued innovation and commitment to innovation for safety and security. 

[00:03:46] Damian: One of the things that's really interesting to me is your approach to ads in the campaigns that you launch. and I know that in 2023 switched from sort of more fearful or scary approach to a humorous [00:04:00] one. And I'm just wondering, you mentioned that tension between living your life to the fullest and also looking after things that matter.

[00:04:06] Could you talk a little bit about that tension and how it informs 

[00:04:10] your

[00:04:10] campaigns. 

[00:04:11] DeLu: I think it's really a really important one that we called the FUD or fear, uncertainty and doubt. And the YOLO, you only live once, and that's always been the tension that we see that the things that we protect customers from versus the things we protect them for. And we saw the insight that, That people really, lean into and get emotional about the things we protect them for.

[00:04:40] And it really shows the value we create 

[00:04:42] when we demonstrate that, and we don't have to scare people to do that. We just need to demonstrate that we are really 

[00:04:49] there to take care of those things. And if we're there and in place taking care of those

[00:04:53] things, then you can do some amazing things and live your life to the fullest.

[00:04:57] And that's really, what our customers,[00:05:00] celebrate. And that's really 

[00:05:01] neat for us to know that we play a critical role

[00:05:04] Damian: That's, that's fascinating. And do you have any sort of specific examples of how, customers have shared those things that ADT has afforded them, insight into their best lives 

[00:05:17] as it were.

[00:05:18] DeLu: Oh, really fascinating is, 

[00:05:21] one of our big partners, looked on, just did web search and we looked at all of these great images of what people were doing with our signs in the background. So celebrating birthdays, celebrating my, first new business as an 

[00:05:36] entrepreneur, Celebrating graduations.

[00:05:40] we had a video of a customer putting an alligator in a trash can in his front yard.

[00:05:45] And that sign is there. 

[00:05:47] Sometimes it's in the background, sometimes it's in the forefront. But it's, been a part of all these big moments. and that's really interesting because it's just there and alive, out in the world every[00:06:00]

[00:06:00] Damian: Yeah. It's amazing. The power of that logo, actually, it's not something As prominent as, say, the Golden Arches. and at the same time, when you. think about it, it is ubiquitous. you see it everywhere, once you start 

[00:06:11] noticing it. 

[00:06:13] DeLu: like you said, if you go through neighborhoods and you start to really pay attention to it, you see how many places it's there, on a window, in a yard, on a business. 

[00:06:23] it is so iconic, and so 

[00:06:26] ever present.

[00:06:27] Damian: Eilidh just mentioned that five years ago she was writing about ADT. And one thing that just occurred to me when she said that is in the last five years we've seen tech, undergo especially ad tech, undergo a kind of boom. And I'm interested to know how that has influenced the way you

[00:06:44] approach your marketing,

[00:06:47] DeLu: it really speaks to the omni channel nature of marketing. It's not one or the other, where our sales motion historically had been,

[00:06:57] very much in the home,

[00:06:59] [00:07:00] physical interactions and interactions with customers. The digital capabilities in terms of information presentation, information gathering, research, And even purchasing online and being able to buy online and even install it yourself.

[00:07:15] All of that has transformed,

[00:07:18] consumers engage with us even purchase. So we're present in all those channels now and make sure that we provide the right information based on the context of those channels. So it's been exciting, in terms of the different ways to reach consumers and connect with, their, evolving needs for safety

[00:07:41] Ilyse: Speaking about your marketing, ADT has shifted from having an in house agency to now going back to an external partner. What basically inspired that shift back? 

[00:07:54] DeLu: Yeah, I'd say it's an evolution, right? So a few years ago had an opportunity to [00:08:00] hire a lot of great talent and bring them in house.

[00:08:03] of build internal capabilities time we're really, leading capabilities as that continued to involve and partners start to bring new ideas. We started to add them to the roster

[00:08:14] and for initiatives and projects. And as we move forward, they start to 

[00:08:18] bring bigger ideas and just through evolution and growth, our teams have added more of those back to our roster and expanded the team size. So now when you look up. it's more of an evolution than a revolution. We look up and we have a great internal team that drives certain capabilities. And then we've supplemented that With some leading partners just so that we can continue to innovate and deliver, on our customer expectations. 

[00:08:43] Ilyse: That is interesting. are there any specific channels that you perhaps are just increasing spend and time and effort on?

[00:08:54] DeLu: Yeah, probably the one that's growing most is connected TV and streaming, you know, as more people go there, [00:09:00] but social is increasing as people consume more information YouTube, right? Those are continuing to grow because when we think about some people, when they purchase these types of solutions, they need more information.

[00:09:12] And sometimes advertising creates interest, but we have to go other places to find, to make the purchase decision or find all the collective information. So I would say is as much, 

[00:09:22] communicating effectively as it is advertising and marketing. It's really the expansion of communicating effectively across all of those channels. I think that's a really

[00:09:31] important distinction for us because we think about it as part of our communication strategy or go to market strategy, not simply what we would call marketing. It's more comprehensive. 

[00:09:42] Yeah, it makes a lot of sense that is your go to market strategy, though, tied to, in some ways, the health of the housing market, because presumably, you're looking to reach people who are buying homes, setting up homes. absolutely. people move, relocate or, [00:10:00] remodel homes, the

[00:10:02] self improvement craze, all of those things, those are, moments that are identified where people make the decision to upgrade a system, add a system, upgrade a system, or reactivate a system. So we definitely, are very present in those activities, online and in physical, channels.

[00:10:18] we've also seen things like, the growth in renters. So we have a, DIY or ADT self set up product. We also work in the multifamily space, where, more users, or builders and, property 

[00:10:31] managers can support the, units and the, renters in those units. Again, Different needs, different need states, and leading brands like ADT are providing more options for consumers to protect

[00:10:45] Damian: That's interesting what you said about renters and the Renters leaning into using the self setup. you say a little bit more about that? What's the potential for that market right now? [00:11:00]

[00:11:06] DeLu: DIY solutions gives people the opportunity to, you Create more affordable solutions as well as they're portable, right? We can take them with me. and so, it's just part of the evolution of the nature of security, how technology has changed it and made it more accessible and more available to more people.

[00:11:26] So it's not just when you're in a home you own, it's in, The home that's yours, or what you call home, and that expanded portfolio has allowed us to provide protection to more families, small businesses, and again, more people.

[00:11:43] Ilyse: Now, when it comes to generational differences between homeowners and renters, how do you look at those different subsets of consumers and target to them effectively across channels? 

[00:11:58] DeLu: Interesting, because we look at the need state [00:12:00] and the use cases. We call them demand spaces. And really, it's sort of life stage and there's some key things, right?

[00:12:07] How often do I relocate? Younger audiences tend to move more, right? Some even current

[00:12:12] generations just move more in general than historically. Then you have more stable where people buy a place and they stay in a place a long time. They have slightly different characteristics. But interesting thing When you're in the business for 150 years, we've been through so many generations 

[00:12:28] of families who have started with us, grown up with us, grown old with us and pass it on to the 

[00:12:34] next generation. So that's again, really interesting dynamic that we've seen over all those 

[00:12:40] decades of presence, that those, those behaviors are really about life stage, affordability, and then. Portability and mobility, relative to those, generations. And so we look at all of those signals to provide solutions that work for consumers across those need states. 

[00:12:59] Damian: it's very interesting [00:13:00] that there's a sort of generational handing down of the brand. And I hadn't even considered that in, the context of security. 

[00:13:08] DeLu: We have so many people who would tell us that I grew up with it. was always there. And it was that, thing that I needed when I needed something, I knew to push the button, or I knew to call, or I knew how to set it, and I remember some of my first memories of setting it, when I'm home, or I'm watching a little brother or a cousin, and so it's a really fascinating, role it's played in so many lives for so and there's just many of those, insights 

[00:13:37] Ilyse: Now, how do you go about measuring the impacts of the campaign investments that you are making? 

[00:13:44] DeLu: Yeah, we use a number of but I think what's really interesting for our team is because we're a direct seller, we have the ability to measure, our investments right down to not just the sale, but to the installation.

[00:13:57] we can look in time at all of our investments in [00:14:00] our media mix and understand when we invest, have something in or out, or we change campaign or content, What's the impact through the entire funnel?

[00:14:09] And I'm fortunate to have a great team from advanced analytics to performance measurement that works together every day with our teams to literally measure that and look at the things that are happening and changing by the day over time. So we have a really interesting, rich body of insight to help us understand, the impact of every investment. 

[00:14:30] Ilyse: one thing with omni channel environments is that a lot of marketers are saying, basically, that with, like, CTV and, commerce, almost like the funnel is collapsing in a sense. what would you say to that? 

[00:14:44] DeLu: I would say it's less of a funnel than a little bit of an infinity loop, right? People are gathering information.

[00:14:52] Pre, during, post, even after they purchase, they continue to gather information, reaffirm, and right, [00:15:00] optimize their choices. So I think it's really, it's not a funnel that kind of goes to the bottom and people stop.

[00:15:07] I think people just continue to, consume information and insights. so I think we kind of have to be always on and again, omnipresent to meet those

[00:15:18] Damian: And speaking of omnipresent and this is a bit of a pivot, but I know you partnered last year with, Miami Marlins in a multi year deal. I'm curious to hear from you, On why sports sponsorships are part of your strategy. 

[00:15:32] DeLu: Yeah, this was a really exciting one for us. And part of it was, beyond just sports sponsorships. This was the first time that they were doing, branded, advertising on major league baseball uniforms. What we liked about it was the context. And if you go to the stadium, you'll see when you're around third base, it says, Safe at Home.

[00:15:52] And when they score a run, it lights up and it says safe at home brought so really neat, right? Some people were thinking it was [00:16:00] really about impressions, right? How much visibility will the, brand visible? That's a really important one. But what we saw was this great context, safe at home.

[00:16:10] It's also a great family venue. It's great for employees. It's great for, And by the way, they play 81 games at home and 81 games on the road. So the brand travels. and then lastly, I would say really cool with the partnership, beyond the community work we do and the development of, of our philanthropy and, giving kids safe places and safe spaces to, grow up and learn sports and develop.

[00:16:36] we also, have the patches on both arms. So when you look at visibility, it's visible for most of the game, because if you're, a right handed batter, it's on the left sleeve. And if it's on the left hand, it's on the right sleeve. Same with the pictures so that the brand is ever present. And finally, I'd say what I loved about it is, as in the stands or on the road talk about it, they [00:17:00] knew the context.

[00:17:01] They said, well, they must need extra protection. And it's like, they understand context in which we operate. And I really love that is that it wasn't just a brand that was there. It was a brand that made sense being there.

[00:17:17] what was really great about that. I love building on that is that when we think about media and the concept of media, this was a big part of it. we use comparisons to what are the number of impressions, media impressions and back to context, contextual delivery of our messaging with these partnerships and each of them gave us the opportunity to get, a large amounts of media and visibility for the brand in a very specific context that reinforces the things that we want to home or safety [00:18:00] help communities stay safe and these are So when you look at that from a pure media perspective, live sports. And sports in general have, broad reach audiences. they have sequentially different audiences based on events and locations. And so give us a lot of great reach, uh, and in some cases great frequency, as I described with, baseball and, on the road.

[00:18:25] We also look at the media markets. Where do they play? You know, so really interesting when you think about it in the context of media versus just, as an event, impressions. worked environments. of [00:19:00] Sure. it really is the evolution you described I caught the tail of the digital revolution, if you will, in marketing. Where as technology started to transform the way we go to market, thought about consumers, thought about the paces which we operate. and the convergence of technology and what we call traditional marketing, right?

[00:19:31] Digital used to be a unique thing that's set between IT and marketing. And then, as you said, they continue to converge in terms of the way consumers engage with those spaces. So then the teams started to come together. And I've been fortunate to have opportunities to work across those different disciplines And bring those things together for organizations who were going through those transformations and help individuals of all help teams of all and help organizations evolve to [00:20:00] bring those things together.

[00:20:01] So my career has been one of sort of the brands you mentioned. amazing organization transformations around the world and really been, an exciting time to be part of marketing. 

[00:20:13] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay

[00:20:18] Ilyse: The Current Podcast's theme is by Love and Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesey and Sydney Cairns.

[00:20:25] Damian: And remember, I'm Damian.

[00:20:27] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse.

[00:20:28] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:20:32] Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Crunch Fitness' CMO, Chad Waetzig joins The Current Podcast to explore how Crunch is developing their on-demand workout streaming app, how they're leaning into performance marketing versus brand-building and why digital media is the best way to reach its gymgoers.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

[00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler

[00:00:01] Ilyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffering. 

[00:00:03] Damian: And welcome to this edition of the current 

[00:00:05] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to talk with Chad Waitzig, the CMO of Crunch Fitness, who leads the brand's marketing and communication efforts for its gym locations all over the world.

[00:00:17] Damian: Headquartered in New York City, Crunch serves 2. 5 million members with over 460 gyms worldwide and continues to expand in the U. S. and around the globe.

[00:00:28] While Crunch has built a community of fitness enthusiasts at its physical locations, it has also been on a mission of expanding its reach on digital.

[00:00:37] We start by asking Chad about how he'd characterize the gym's marketing goals.

[00:00:43] Ilyse: so Chad, how would you characterize the marketing mission for Crunch?

[00:00:48] Chad: It's really important for us, to both build comprehension around what the crunch brand experience is.

[00:01:05] And we think we've got a pretty unique offering in the high value, low price space and in fitness, but it's also to drive leads and it's to fill that, consumer funnel, with folks who are interested in exploring a fitness workout, And building that lead base so that our franchisees, our partners in our marketing journey, can invite them into the gym, give them a free trial, and encourage them to join and continue their fitness journey with us.

[00:01:32] so as we think about what we do day in and day out, I'd say that, 80 percent of what we do is focused on how can we introduce the brand to more people and drive leads into the system.

[00:01:41] Damian: Now, can you talk about your latest campaign and how that works? I know you're talking about, a kind of big campaign, but you're also then trying to target local gyms and gym spaces and demographics. Can you talk about how that relationship works?

[00:01:54] what about the new campaign? Feel good, not bad? 

[00:01:57] Chad: Yeah. Yeah. So we're, really excited about feel good. [00:02:00] Not bad. we launched the campaign on December the 26th, which is, basically the start of our year, immediately after Christmas. and the, conceit or the gestalt of the campaign is to. recognize that as a country, we've gone through a lot of bad stuff, and, there's a lot of bad in the world, and we don't want to focus on the bad in the world, but we know that it's out there and  how do we, recognize that a way to combat that is to feel good, and to feel good.

[00:02:31] You can do that through working out. So the whole campaign is focused on this idea of telling a story about the bad things that happen through silly, humorous, metaphors, banging your head on a drawer, getting stuck in a revolving door, waking up in the desert on a camping trip with a snake.

[00:02:52] Attached to your face, really absurd, silly things as a metaphor for the bad in the world, and that through working out and through [00:03:00] working out at crunch, you can get those endorphin rushes. you can escape from the world. You can forget all the bad that's out there and really focus on yourself.

[00:03:07] You can really lose yourself at crunch. so that's, the gestalt behind the campaign or the, idea behind the campaign. Now, the way we execute that campaign, and we do it in partnership with our franchisees, is through a mix of brand marketing, performance marketing, and retail marketing. And so we've designed, creative assets that kind of take you through that entire journey, whether it's television, radio, direct mail, or digital marketing assets, that really tell that story in a layered way as a consumer moves through the journey.

[00:03:41] Damian: Yeah, that's interesting. now you mentioned the campaign, the Feel Good, Not Bad campaign is one that really dives into humor to convey how fitness can be fun. We recently had on this podcast, the CEO of BBDO, Andrew Robertson, who talked about the importance of funny ads and why they're so important.

[00:03:59] [00:04:00] To building a brand's identity. I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. and why is Funny the right fit for you?

[00:04:07] Chad: Yeah, first of all, I would agree with his assessment. And, at our heart, we're storytellers, right? All marketers are storytellers, and we're telling the story of our brand and our business. And humor, leveraging humor, is one way to tell that story in a way that we think breaks through the clutter.

[00:04:26] We're a gym for goodness sakes, right? We're a place where people come to, to get better. whether that's more, more flexible, whether that's to build endurance, whether that's to lose weight, whether that's to gain strength and muscle, but we also don't take ourselves too seriously. And so we think that, our no judgments philosophy, the way we approach our members and the way we approach our experience, it really lends itself well to humor.

[00:04:50] But the other thing to keep in mind too, is that. Humor can work in almost any business. think about insurance. 20 years ago, if you had said, we're going to use humor to tell [00:05:00] the insurance story, people would have thought you were crazy. Maybe it's more than 20 years now, but, Geico really broke through the clutter and now look at everybody in that category, right?

[00:05:08] They all leverage humor for something that is not a very funny product. our product isn't funny, but our product and our experience is fun. And we think humor helps us tell that story. 

[00:05:19] Ilyse: Now here we talk a lot about digital channels, obviously, programmatic, CTV, and, there's a Common philosophy or really it's just a fact at this point that, that's a good way to reach like younger consumers. is that what you are finding? Are you trying to reach millennials and Gen Zers specifically?

[00:05:44] Or are you looking at whole cohorts of people? Consumers, what is your approach?

[00:05:50] Chad: our core consumer is somebody that we call young strong on social, they are our north star. They're the group that we [00:06:00] focus on, for crunch, about a quarter of our member base is made up of. Of people 18 to 24, about a third of our member base are members 25 to 34, so the majority of our members are in that 18 to 34 age range, and that's our young, strong and social group.

[00:06:16] Now, we run, we have, campaigns available for our network, to target seniors, active seniors. boomers, Gen, Gen Xers like me, but really our focus is on the 18 to 34 and we do find that digital media channels, are really the best way to reach that audience, right? They, by and large, they're not cable TV subscribers.

[00:06:39] they watch a lot of YouTube. They're on social media. and we find that, one of the best ways for us to build awareness is either through CTV, or through YouTube. Uh, and those are the two channels where we are dominant.

[00:06:52] Ilyse: And I know you've also spoken about, TV itself too, a little bit. How has like this omni [00:07:00] channel like approach really benefited your brand?

[00:07:04] Chad: Yeah, for us, it's been a journey. today we've got 460 gyms and about 2. 7 million members, and we're celebrating our 35th anniversary, but, we're still a small business. when I joined Crunch seven years ago, we had about 125 locations and, obviously we were significantly smaller.

[00:07:21] So our dollars, We had to make a strategic choice back then, and our strategic choice was to invest in performance marketing almost exclusively at the expense of brand marketing. Now that we've grown, and now that we're bigger, and we have the, The resources available to us the critical mass. We have found that the omni channel approach for us has paid off in spades.

[00:07:46] Our brand awareness has tripled in the last three years, whether that's aided or unaided. And we find that then drives. more consumers to consider us. Our consideration is higher, which then [00:08:00] leads to greater lead production, and greater sales. And, the brand doesn't do it alone.

[00:08:05] Our franchisees play a big role in that, but if we had not made that strategic shift to really focus on the Omni channel, I don't think our results would be as strong as they are today.

[00:08:17] Ilyse: And today, are you mostly now looking at consumer retention or learning new members to join? It does seem, we talk a lot about streaming wars, but it does seem like there's quite a lot of gym wars out there now.

[00:08:31] Chad: Yeah, you know, the fitness industry is, really an interesting one. It is competitive. so today about one in five Americans belongs to a gym, a health club, the Y, or a boutique studio. Now, that number 10, 15 years ago was probably closer to 15%, 14%. The category itself is growing.

[00:08:51] So when, crunch wins, the whole category wins when our competitors, when the category wins, cause we are growing the category, but we do compete [00:09:00] for a lot of the same folks, people do switch gyms, they break up with their old gym, they, join a new gym. and so it is a mix for us on the acquisition side.

[00:09:09] To both bring new people into the category that maybe are just considering a gym for the very first time, but we're also trying to steal members from other clubs that without a doubt, and our competition would probably say the same. So in answer to your bigger question, how do we think about it is about retention is about acquisition.

[00:09:27] It really is both. 

[00:09:29] Damian: It's interesting. you know, we did use the analogy of streaming, but there's a lot of churn in streaming. you turn off your subscription for one and then you turn it on for another. We just had some data recently that said, I think 30 percent of people who cancel return within a few months to the channel.

[00:09:43] So, it's an interesting game, I guess. Yeah,

[00:09:49] Chad: of our biggest sources of leads. we very much, look at our former members as potential future members, and they do come back.

[00:09:57] Ilyse: Very interesting. Yeah. And, speaking of [00:10:00] streaming, Crunch has its Crunch Plus platform and I know this was a big kind of trend overall, no matter what category you're in, during COVID and everything was to go digital, make sure your product is available where the people were, which is their living rooms at home.

[00:10:18] and now it's a little more than a year old. and it obviously it built on what you had before, which is crunch live. Can you tell us how this has been performing and how you would describe the divide between people going in person to the gym and potentially those working out at home now?

[00:10:38] Chad: Yeah, really great question. So you're right. We launched, crunch plus about a year ago, and we retired an old platform that we had that was called crunch live crunch live we were the first big box gym to have our own streaming workout product it launched way back in 2013, and it was browser based [00:11:00] only.

[00:11:00] Ilyse: Way pre COVID before it was cool.

[00:11:03] Chad: it was cool. Before it was cool. And during COVID, we saw our daily usage. Increased tenfold, with a fairly limited library of workouts. And so we clearly realized that we needed to reintroduce our streaming products and that's how we got to crunch plus. So now crunch plus is available on, just about every streaming device.

[00:11:23] And, we couldn't be more pleased with where we are today. versus our launch. and just this year alone versus where we finished, in December of last year, our user base on the platform is up 47%.

[00:11:39] we have over 600, Workouts available and we're adding the goal is to add one workout a day Either through live streaming or through pre recorded content to the library And we see crunch plus as really both a member benefit. So if you are a crunch member, You get access to crunch plus and basically a [00:12:00] 70 discount off the retail price.

[00:12:02] it's incredibly Affordable. It's 1. 99 a month. and so for our members, it's a way to take that brand experience outside the four walls of the gym, whether they're wanting to work out at home, or maybe they travel a lot and they want to take it on the road, but they can also take it right back into the gym.

[00:12:19] And so we've got workouts that, are on a treadmill or on a spin bike, or require the use of dumbbells and other equipment that you may not have at home, We've got in the crunch gym. And so we've really created this hybrid workout environment between in person in the gym and virtual on crunch plus, and now for our retail subscribers, those that are not crunch members. they pay 6. 99 a month. Again, it's, an incredible value relative to other products in the marketplace, and we think it's a great way to extend the brand and reach into markets where crunch doesn't exist yet. you can get crunch plus anywhere in the world. we've got 460 locations and [00:13:00] 360 of them are in the United States.

[00:13:01] So we have lots of growth ahead of us in terms of our physical footprint, but we love where our digital footprint has taken us.

[00:13:10] Damian: Yeah, that's a great move. I see people in the gym with, their smartphones looking at workouts and things. It makes sense for you to have that workout associated with, crunch, or the gym in question.

[00:13:21] Chad: that's exactly right. and we really have only started to scratch the surface of where we can take this. I mean, one of the biggest challenges for new people who have never worked out in a gym before is the intimidation that they feel when they come to the gym. And, Most people think about the intimidation as being the, I've got to lose weight before I join the gym mentality, right? the body image concerns. But think about this. If you've never been to a gym before and you walk in the door, you are seeing all kinds of foreign alien equipment with pulleys and weights and pins and benches that articulate in different directions.

[00:13:58] Where do I even [00:14:00] start? And what we think CrunchPlus is going to be great for is to give people who are completely new to the gym experience that introduction of how do I get started? What is the best workout for me? How does this piece of equipment actually work? If I'm concerned about how I might be perceived by others, let me watch this video and see how to set this up correctly.

[00:14:21] so we're real excited about where we're going to continue to take this platform as it continues to grow and mature.

[00:14:26] Damian: Yeah, that's a great point.

[00:14:27] Ilyse: could have used that for sure. Yeah, you

[00:14:29] Damian: and you see some of these, dudes in there, they're massive and they're making it look like, child's play. I'm like, what? This,

[00:14:36] Chad: Right,

[00:14:37] Damian: this is scary. Yeah. 

[00:14:41] Chad: The great thing about those guys, though, is if you ask them for help, they're going to jump right in and help you. they're very proud to share. Here's, how you do this.

[00:14:48] Damian: Mm. It's a community, right? a fitness community.

[00:14:52] Chad: absolutely. Absolutely. It's the community. In fact, we just did a recent member survey, new member survey, [00:15:00] and we found that 46 percent of our new members, have actually made new friends or founded a community at crunch just by joining and getting to the gym.

[00:15:10] So we do think crunch is a great place to build community and our members that it's one of the reasons why they join. 

[00:15:17] Damian: And speaking of community, you have recently teamed up with Amazon One. Can you talk about how that partnership improves the membership experience for your customers?

[00:15:28] Chad: we love our partnership with Amazon. it has gone really well. And they've been, as you can imagine, they're one of the largest companies in the world. They are very sophisticated in what they do. And, they've been a great partner to work with, for those, listeners that aren't familiar with the Amazon one product, it is a biometric device reads basically the palm of your hand.

[00:15:49] It is a touchless device. You basically hover your palm over their reader and it identifies you uniquely. So apparently the palm of your hand is as unique as your fingerprint [00:16:00] or your retina and, Amazon has piloted this in, I believe it's being rolled out in Whole Foods.

[00:16:07] I believe they have a partnership with Panera. And then they were piloting it in their own C Store concept for a while. We got together with Amazon to really be the first to bring it to the fitness environment. And the initial application or use case is to validate a member's entry into the gym. And What we found is I think a couple of things.

[00:16:32] there's a back office business case which reduces fraud for us. So we don't have members sharing their key tag with their barcode with friends, right? Because now I only can get in with my palm. So that reduces, that concern. But from the perspective of our members, it shows that we're progressive.

[00:16:57] We're forward thinking. we've got the latest [00:17:00] technology and we're bringing that into the environment. and we've seen adoption close to 80 percent in the locations where we've rolled it out. There are some folks that are still concerned about having their biometric data. read by Amazon, and we respect that and we'll still have the old way of scanning barcodes at the front desk, but for the vast majority of our members, it allows them to get into the gym quickly and get right to their workout.

[00:17:24] Damian: Mm. That is fascinating. I actually didn't know about Amazon One, 

[00:17:27] Chad: Yeah, if you have a Whole Foods near you, next time you go to a Whole Foods, see if they've got it. it's how I use, it's how I check out at Whole Foods. it is faster than even, Apple Pay and Google Pay, I

[00:17:39] Damian: Wow. Mm.

[00:17:41] Chad: I think it's a pretty great service.

[00:17:42] Damian: in general, when it comes to partnerships, how important are those kind of brand partnerships for Crunch?

[00:17:49] Chad: they're really important and, you can think about partnerships for us, at least. We think about it in a couple of different levels. One is this kind of, Big strategic capability [00:18:00] enhancing partnership, which we have with Amazon, and we've got obviously have partnerships with some of the best, equipment manufacturers in the fitness space, right? Whether that's through life fitness or, TRX or the other, brands of the space, and we look at that as a way to enhance our member experience. We've got a really talented member experience team headed up by our chief experience officer, Molly long and, Molly and her team are thinking about ways that they can bring these kinds of big brand partnerships that are enablers.

[00:18:34] To bear on the member experience. But on the marketing side, we also look at brand partnerships as a way to enhance your existing membership. So we do partnerships where we provide our members access to crunch only discounts. So we have one right now with Crocs where members can get a discount on Crocs shoes that's proving to be very popular.

[00:18:58] And one of the ways in [00:19:00] which we talk about our membership, pricing with our members. and so one of the things that we like to say to prospective members is that if you take advantage of all the discounts that you can get through your crunch membership, all the retail discounts with our brand partners, your membership practically pays for itself.

[00:19:14] And so we like to think that because it is a membership, you are part of a community, you are part of a gym, you are part of a club. If we can give value back to that member, it only makes that membership more valuable to them. So for us, those brand partnerships are super important.

[00:19:30] Damian: we want to talk about first party data, of course, and we want to talk about that and how that informs some of your campaigns. And we assume, given that you have this great membership, global membership, it's not necessarily an issue for Crunch.

[00:19:43] But how do you go about, leveraging that first party data to inform your marketing efforts? 

[00:19:49] Chad: so obviously our first party data even more so today than in years past is important to us and being able to leverage that data is [00:20:00] an important part of what we do both on the brand marketing side, but also are we work with our franchise partners for them to execute on their local marketing side.

[00:20:08] Our media agency of record is USIM, and through USIM, we have an identity resolution initiative with TransUnion, where we enrich our first party data anonymously, with the TransUnion data, and we use that for audience building, lookalike audience building, Former member, audience building, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:20:29] And a lot of that is used, through programmatic. it, it informs, what we do, in terms of, our targeting. the way in which we've structured our media approach, brand marketing happens through the Crunch marketing team. We also pick up search, on behalf of our network, just given the complexities of search and the ever changing, approach to paid search.

[00:20:54] we. We feel like we're in a better position to manage that on behalf of our franchisees than asking our franchisees [00:21:00] to do that. Really everything in between is through our franchise partners and we have four brand approved agencies that they can choose to work with And we work with them To make sure that they have access to first party data so that they can also enrich that data and do first party, audience building, et cetera.

[00:21:20] So for us, it's a critical component of what we do. And again, of, what we spend, I would say that, from. CTV all the way down through search, probably 90 percent of our spend across the network is digital.

[00:21:36] Ilyse: Very awesome. I actually have a question about first party data. Are you able to glean more, say from Crunch Plus? Because people are tuning in and you're able to see, what kind of workouts they're choosing, what kind of, when, they are actually working out.

[00:21:55] It must be very revealing, even more so than your regular, gym [00:22:00] customers that come in.

[00:22:02] Chad: it's actually, that's actually a great question and it is true because obviously we control and manage the crunch plus platform of the 600 plus videos or workouts that we have. We can see what the viewership is. We can, we understand the view through rate on each of those. We know what each subscriber is watching and what kind of workouts they're doing and the frequency with which they're doing that.

[00:22:26] and that's rich data that. We don't necessarily have easily accessed on the gym membership side. so from that standpoint, in terms of building out new workouts, as an example, we found that the 20 minute workout videos were the most popular in the group. And yet when we launched, we were launching with 30, 45 minute workout videos.

[00:22:51] We pivoted very quickly to doing more over 20 minute workouts. And what we found is. The 20 minutes were actually too long based on view through [00:23:00] rates. So we launched a number of what we call quickies, right? They're five minute workouts and the viewership on those has skyrocketed. that's where we've leveraged that first party data to learn on the gym side, it's a little bit more challenging, but we're actually building out more of a, first party data set around.

[00:23:16] utilization of the gym. We know when they check into the gym. If they book and take a group fitness class, we know that they're doing that because that's an online reservation system. we know when they buy a personal training package and when they take personal training sessions. And so the next level for us as an organization is to better activate that first party data so that we can do a better job on member retention.

[00:23:40] upselling into higher tier memberships, and cross selling into other parts of our business.

[00:23:45] Ilyse: And based off of that, and knowing that you guys are located in 41 states,

[00:23:51] Chad: Yes.

[00:23:52] Ilyse: you can probably tell me which states are the fittest in the U. S. in terms of attendance. I mean, I'm just [00:24:00] curious.

[00:24:00] Damian: just

[00:24:01] Chad: so that's a really good question.

[00:24:04] Ilyse: New York, I know.

[00:24:05] Chad: I, I can, I can say I can say that,

[00:24:09] Ilyse: work out a lot here.

[00:24:10] Chad: there are certain markets. the southeast is one of them where the number of visits per member is higher than the average. Obviously, we have an average, per month in the southeast. Really strong gym attendance.

[00:24:26] I'm not going to say whether or not they're more fit than

[00:24:29] Damian: Yeah, you can't know that.

[00:24:31] Chad: but utilization does vary based on, based on market. I don't know how much of that is driven by weather, or how much that's driven by lifestyle. 

[00:24:39] Ilyse: who's the laziest

[00:24:40] Chad: in New York City, New York City, we have really strong, really strong utilization of the gyms, best ever, better than pre pandemic.

[00:24:48] Ilyse: Oh well.

[00:24:49] Chad: but we've seen that across the board that the utilization of our gyms post pandemic has been at a higher level everywhere than versus than pre pandemic.

[00:24:59] Ilyse: People [00:25:00] want to get out there again.

[00:25:01] Chad: I think people want to get out there. Yep. I think they recognize that the role of fitness in, in relieving stress and anxiety is important.

[00:25:08] Ilyse: How do you then tailor your messaging? Based off of location, especially if you're, talking to the fittest people in the U S versus the laziest,

[00:25:18] Damian: people in

[00:25:20] Chad: we wouldn't say that we're all about no judgments,

[00:25:22] Damian: no, of course.

[00:25:23] Chad: there, there is no one type, there is no one reason, there is no one way, for us at Crunch. but we do build out marketing assets that allow our franchisees, who are the closest To the member than we are here in the puzzle palace here in New York City, right in the ivory tower.

[00:25:42] and we make sure that we provide assets that, if your club is really strong in group fitness classes, that we've got the assets for you there. If your gym is really big into strength training, which is virtually all gyms. Now we've got lots of strength training assets, or if you're into hit workouts, or if you're into [00:26:00] Kids Crunch babysitting is important because you've got a lot of younger families and they need to have child care when they come to the gym and work out and we allow our franchisees then to use those assets to tailor their marketing communications based on their local needs.

[00:26:16] Damian: It's interesting. Now, you mentioned, maybe people in warmer climates and warmer states going to the gym maybe than others, but I don't know whether that holds true, but what I wanted to ask you about is what does the marketing calendar look like for a gym like Crunch? especially around key moments, we're here, A good third of the way into the year, but January's obviously got to be a big moment for gyms because everyone has that resolution to get fit again, New Year's resolutions, and then there's the summer, approaching, people think about, oh, I've got to be back on the beach, what should we do?

[00:26:50] How do you strategize around those moments?

[00:26:55] Chad: Yeah, there is certainly a seasonality to, to both visitation and [00:27:00] membership joins new members joining the gym. the first quarter of the year is the. The most important quarter of the year for us. it is our Black Friday and Cyber Monday and holiday season. and we do structure our spending accordingly, right?

[00:27:14] So we'll heavy up in Q1, in the months later in the year when gym memberships aren't as, The demand isn't as high. We will adjust spending accordingly. So we do balance that out throughout the year. So we do marry up spend with demand. Within any given month, we will run a series of national promotions that our franchisees can opt into.

[00:27:39] And they tend to be priced Price driven, because that's the category we're in, but we provide the support to the franchise network around the if they opt into that promotion to try to convert prospects in the system to becoming members. We do look at certain, events. So certainly we look at. New Year's resolutions, New [00:28:00] Year to you.

[00:28:01] We look at spring break. We look at the beginning of the summer. We look at back to school. and then we look at the, to school is the last big hit when you begin to hit November and December, most consumers are really focused on holiday shopping, holiday parties, family get togethers, travel, Wrapping up their year end of their job if they're on a calendar or fiscal year, And then we start right over again on december 26th, and that's when people are like, okay, let's get back to the gym so we do take all of that into consideration but every month has a cycle and every quarter has a cycle and then obviously there's a cycle to the year

[00:28:41] Ilyse: so there's obviously one of the biggest categories on social media is fitness. I would say there's so many fitness influencers out there these days.

[00:28:52] To what extent do you share a kind of like common goal to get people to the gym? Do you then access and use [00:29:00] these social media personalities?

[00:29:02] Chad: Yep. yeah, really good question. influencers in the fitness space are very important and we have worked with influencers. off and on over the past several years, we work with them today. And what we have found them to be most effective for us is around awareness building, introducing crunch to their audience.

[00:29:26] we have tried to activate, and I'm using air quotes for those, listening, obviously, we've tried to activate those influencers to try to sell gym memberships. And we've not succeeded in that. I think their audiences see through that.

[00:29:40] Ilyse: Hmm. Interesting.

[00:29:42] Chad: And so for us, it's more about the authenticity of we want to invite the influencers into our gym.

[00:29:47] We want them to get in a great workout. We want them to tell their story on that does more value for us. than them trying to sell a membership to their audience. And so we certainly work and we pay influencers [00:30:00] for some of that awareness building. But we also Work really hard to make sure that our member experience is an excellent experience for all of our members because we have influencers in our gym all the time that we may not even be aware that they're there and we want them.

[00:30:18] We wanted to organically. Work its way through social media, and we've actually had some great success with that. And so the success comes from our fantastic operators on running a great gym on the influencers who are already members are just telling the crunch story for us. They're evangelists on. You really can't put a price on that.

[00:30:41]

[00:30:41] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned.

[00:30:46] Ilyse: The current podcast theme is by Love and Caliber.

[00:30:49] The current team includes cat fussy and Sydney Cairns. 

[00:30:53] Damian: remember I'm

[00:30:55] Ilyse: and I'm

[00:30:56] Damian: we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe [00:31:00] and leave us a review. Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.

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Intuit's Dave Raggio shares why SMB MediaLabs doesn’t own inventory, how it prioritizes privacy for its customers, and the reason consumer and CPG brands are turning to Intuit’s data. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

[00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian Fowler.

[00:00:01] Ilyse: and I'm Ilyse Liffreing

[00:00:02] Damian: and welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

[00:00:05] Ilyse: This week, we're delighted to bring Dave Raggio to the podcast. Dave is the vice president of S& B Media Labs, a B2B media network owned by Intuit, which is of course known for business products like TurboTax, QuickBooks, Credit Karma, and MailChimp.

[00:00:22] Damian: Now Dave developed the idea of SMB Media Lab, which leans on the first party data from the millions of people who use QuickBooks, and it provides small businesses with the intelligence they need to reach their customers across channels like audio and CTV.

[00:00:38] Ilyse: We start out by asking Dave about the origins of S& D Media Labs.

[00:00:42] : It really came from honestly my personal frustration, in trying to reach SMBs for my, what I'm calling my day job. So, I was hired four years ago, at Intuit to lead QuickBooks acquisition marketing. And I actually still hold that position today. Um, my entire career has [00:01:00] been consumer brand. So I was with North Face before this.

[00:01:02] Um, spent a lot of time agency side, working on a variety of clients across CPG and e comm retail. And when I got to, into it, um, I tried to essentially apply the same data sources and tactics that worked very well for me in the, in the consumer world. And it was met very quickly with the reality that SMB data is very hard to find, and when you do find it, the accuracy is just not great.

[00:01:28] So, you know, I have a friend, um, that works in the agency that me that at the top you have enterprise level data, which is pretty high quality at the bottom. You have your consumer data, which is abundant and high quality, but between there's a big void and that's pretty much where all S and B data lives.

[00:01:49] Um, so it started off. Kind of, it's just a joke internally that I really wish there was a company like QuickBooks that I could partner with and [00:02:00] buy media through that would allow me to find not only the scale of audiences that Intuit has, but also the depth of knowledge about how those, how those businesses are operated and run.

[00:02:10] And then that joke kind of became a realization that it is a need for other advertisers that Intuit could very much fill and very uniquely fill as well. Just considering kind of. The breadth and depth of information that we have, um, on, on our small business owners. Um, so that was the start of it. Um, but of course, you know, we wanted to make sure that we were doing it in a way that was beneficial to our customers, um, and done in a privacy safe way.

[00:02:38] So that was kind of the start of the journey was just the realization that we had something that advertisers would be interested in, but we also wanted to make sure that it was something that benefited our customers as well.

[00:02:47] Damian: That void that you talk about in the middle between enterprise level data and consumer data is quite surprising, isn't it? That there wasn't anything there for those small businesses. I know that 99 percent of all businesses are [00:03:00] SMBs. So that's a huge, uh, yeah, that's a, that's a huge amount of, uh, data that's not being used.

[00:03:09] So was it a surprising moment when, when, when you go, when you saw that and you thought, Oh, this is an opportunity.

[00:03:15] Dave: Yeah, I, you know, there are small pockets of data where you can get very narrow in, it's just not scalable. So that was the sort of challenge. So you can go to a lot of individual professional sites. But the reality is the world of media is not built around the business that you run, it's built around you as a person.

[00:03:31] So stitching those two parameters together, because, you know, as QuickBooks growth, We're looking for specific types of business problems. And, you know, a lot of these small business owners are not active on professional networks. Um, if they have profiles there, they're not looking at them on a regular basis or updating them.

[00:03:51] Um, so they, they kind of become. In the shadows, like the S and B part of the data and the targeting capabilities and the need state from the business that they [00:04:00] run sits behind their sort of consumer profiles. So I think it was a surprise when I first joined, but. Logically, after a little while, I was like, okay, that makes sense of why we're not able to find the business traits and qualities that we are able to.

[00:04:18] Damian: Yeah, that makes sense. The

[00:04:20] Ilyse: Now, how would you go about like describing the value of these small businesses and the data that their advertisers are trying to use to reach this audience?

[00:04:31] Dave: Yeah, um, so great question. And there's, there's a couple of different layers of sort of knowledge that we have on our, on our customer base, and we're not unlocking all of those just yet. So we want to, again, going back to the want to do what's right by our customers, we want to make sure that. All the information that we're collecting is something that they would expect us to collect, that they have full control over their ability to participate in this, and that we're only partnering with advertisers that, um, you know, have the best [00:05:00] intent for, for our customers.

[00:05:02] With that, uh, we are layering on top of ad buys, data that seems to already exist in the market, but is much more accurate. So that was one of the sort of uphill battles that we've had in the early stages of this. So things like industry, age, revenue, employee count, these are things that on the surface appear to exist in other third party data sources, but You know, again, being on the other side of the buying of this one, I see how wildly off some of those data sources can be and the assumptions that they have about a small business.

[00:05:34] So what we're adding on to that is just a very, very, um, deterministic one to one knowledge and accuracy that didn't exist. So we eliminate a lot of waste that comes with using some of the other data providers or even just kind of doing broad market advertising. So that's kind of the main value prop.

[00:05:54] That said, we are working with our legal and privacy team. And our [00:06:00] executive sponsor is actually the head of privacy. So that should tell everyone a little bit about how serious we're taking this. But we're also thinking about with our customers, what value can we add to them if we continue to go into what we're calling transactional type data, if we're able to go the next step deeper.

[00:06:16] And the reason for that is every business. on the surface may look the same in an industry size employee count, but how they run their business could be very different. So if you're a construction company, that's in the same region as another construction company, roughly same revenue, roughly same employee count doesn't mean that you invest completely different in marketing.

[00:06:37] And you may be, Think about your supply chain very differently. What that allows us to do is actually find need states for our customers and be able to pair them with the advertisers that might be able to serve, um, solutions for them in those needs states. And so that's kind of the next wave that we're working on.

[00:06:52] It's something that we haven't done yet, but we're hoping to unlock for our advertisers.

[00:06:57] Ilyse: Yeah, that's definitely a good example. [00:07:00] Um, I feel like, In a, such a new kind of company like this, and I know you refer to you guys as like a retail media network, although you're not exactly a retail media, um, so it's, it's, it's definitely hard to kind of describe, I would assume, to other B2B businesses exactly what to do and how your like first party data And you essentially use QuickBooks, um, primarily, right?

[00:07:27] Um, how they can use that data to their advantage. Is there, like, another example that you can give how, um, advertiser would use your, your media network in order to, like, reach their audience? Heh

[00:07:43] Dave: you mentioned that, that, you know, we've, we've been using the term retail media network, but we're, we're very much not a retail media network. So we do not have owned and operated inventory and that's by design. Um, you don't start a business because you're passionate about bookkeeping in most cases.

[00:07:55] Um, so we're leaning into as a company, AI and, and, [00:08:00] um, automation to make sure that we're trying to reduce the amount of time that That a customer has to spend in our platforms in order to, um, to get their work done. So throwing ads in there will slow that down. It's not something that, you know, someone that's already paying for subscription would, would want to have that said, there are potentially ways that we've been looking at that. Provide additional value to that. That said by not having owned and operated, I think that we accidentally fell into what I'm calling kind of the next wave of retail media network. So we are more of an audience network that can be layered on to any part of your ad buy that's programmatic. So we have partnerships with the trade desk, with physio, with DV360, with meta, and we We are agnostic to inventory source.

[00:08:44] We just allow the advertiser, whatever their KPIs are across the board to just get more efficient and more focused on just the right people. And that's been, um, again, slightly different than what most retail media networks are going, but attending a bunch of [00:09:00] conferences, that seems to be really the hot topic of your own and operated inventory is great.

[00:09:04] It is the last. bottom, bottom, bottom of the funnel that you're able to, um, that you're able to really leverage. We are able to address full funnel campaigns with that audience targeting.

[00:09:18] Damian: That's very interesting. What kind of advertisers in this space are keen to take advantage of this opportunity to reach these millions of small businesses?

[00:09:29] Dave: Yeah, it's so that's been one of the larger surprising things when we started this up. So we built this assuming insurance, banking, credit cards, those would be the The sort of the very close in some of the software SAS providers. Um, that has been very true for us that that's where we're seeing a lot of interest, but we've had a lot of consumer brands coming to us.

[00:09:48] There seems to be a wave of interest in small business as a segment for a lot of advertisers. So we've had one of the largest CPG brands approach us. I worked at Method for [00:10:00] a while, so I know firsthand that shipping a bottle of hand soap is very expensive, and it's only a 3 bottle of hand soap, but it's mostly water and fragile, so you're upside down in your e comm costs.

[00:10:12] So the area where e comm works really well for CPG brands is concentrates in large formats, and the normal consumer do not want that. It is very profitable to go that direction. Um, so they reached out to us, same thing with one of the largest beverage companies reached out to us cause they want to be in more restaurants, more independent restaurants than the chain restaurants.

[00:10:30] So it's been a little surprising across the board of, you know, who's really approached us. Um, and, and some of these non traditional sort of B2B, as you would think about it are really the ones that have a ton of interest.

[00:10:42] Ilyse: yeah I must say. It seems like B2B is on like some kind of upward trending line right now. Um, we are seeing like a, an increase across like all channels, I feel like, maybe. Like, um, maybe that's due to like, I don't know, the rise of like [00:11:00] LinkedIn or like, um, just more businesses coming forward. And being created in general, maybe the pandemic even, I don't know, it's, it's curious because I do feel like even like channels like CTV, for instance, there's a lot more like B2B kind of marketing happening.

[00:11:16] Is

[00:11:16] Dave: Yeah. We're seeing the same thing and we're excited that we're kind of showing up at the right time for that. You know, I think our hypothesis on that is, um, very much correct. There was a small business boom during the pandemic, but a lot of advertisers I think have, have started to kind of run out of scale and saturation that they can have amongst the sort of consumer.

[00:11:36] And this is an entirely new audience with tremendous spending power that you can talk about different products that you wouldn't want to put, you know, on a Super Bowl spot. You know, the CPG brand is not going to run a large format concentrate ad in the Super Bowl, but there's now a new path and a new audience that is kind of untapped.

[00:11:54] And we're also seeing that also in the marketing space. So a lot of the major social networks and ad providers. [00:12:00] Their next target is all the S and B's because they've got so much share of wallet amongst the enterprise level brands that their, their next growth area is going to have to come from the long tail of S and B's.

[00:12:10] Um, so we're happy because we truly feel like we are the most accurate and best way to reach those S and B's. Um, so we're, we're hoping that, that, you know, everything kind of comes together.

[00:12:20] Damian: Is there a, is there some kind of nuance in terms of the channels that advertisers trying to reach businesses use versus, you know, more traditional, you might say consumer channels? I mean, they're obviously consumers. are also business owners and business owners are consumers. But is there a different sort of way that you're thinking or the advertisers are thinking about leveraging, um, the data that you're providing?

[00:12:48] Dave: We've not seen that. So kind of going back to the challenge that brought this whole thing to life is that The the line between them as a small business owner and them is just a person [00:13:00] is almost indistinguishable between the two of those. So The nice thing is because it's programmatic wherever they happen to be We're able to find them and able to serve them relevant advertising at that point I think that Um, it really the, the majority of channel selection will come down to the objective of the campaign.

[00:13:22] So we had a major global logistics company that was very focused on brand advertising and we were running them on connected TV with Vizio. We were running them on some digital video formats. We had another SaaS provider that was very focused on cost per leads. And we. Much heavier on the social and programmatic, uh, display side of things.

[00:13:41] So it's really more of what's the objective dictates kind of the channel mix itself. But, um, in terms of are there subtle nuances or specific places we go? Not really. We kind of just follow, follow the sort of, um, friends that we're seeing with the, with those small business [00:14:00] owners.

[00:14:00] Damian: Totally makes sense.

[00:14:01] Ilyse: Now, you've described SMB MediaLabs as the next wave of retail networks, which is very interesting. I like that kind of quote right there. Um, you've also said it's like a more open network than some others. Can you describe why that is?

[00:14:20] Dave: Yeah, so I would say we're not the next wave. I think that we are ahead and riding the next wave. So I don't say that we are defining it by any means, but, um, we were open in the fact that we're not relying on our own inventory. So we can go. Pretty much anywhere. Um, and if an advertiser comes to us and they have a specific DSP that they really want to work with, we can onboard those DSPs if they're not already in our network.

[00:14:44] So a big part of our, of our product is really making sure that we have the largest breadth of inventory sources and partnerships available, that we can develop campaigns in partnership with the advertiser and the agencies that actually, um, can [00:15:00] span wherever they believe that their customers are, whatever their objectives are.

[00:15:03] So that's, that's the open part. Of what we're doing. Um, and because of that also, like there's just easier capabilities for them to, to measure it because they're already using a lot of the DSPs and platforms that they're, they're using for their normal campaign. So we're not any sort of walled garden that has hidden metrics behind the scene, which I know is also, you know, a challenge for a lot of retail media networks as well.

[00:15:26] Ilyse: That's awesome. How do you, going about your own advertising for this network, how are you basically scaling it?

[00:15:34] Dave: Getting the word out and, uh, getting people to, uh, to, to try it. So we have had, um, I think we're, we're in, in month eight now, and we've had a number of large advertisers come in the data's, the data and the audience targeting is performing extremely well, that is something that, um, was a concern of mine going in that, you know, a, is there enough people that are interested in S and B's and we already [00:16:00] talked about how that, you know, You know, has been something that we've been able to check that box and say, yes, there is a ton of interest from advertisers across the board.

[00:16:07] The second one was, have I convinced myself that our audience quality is as good as it is. Um, and the data that's come in as, as shown that it's, it's performing extremely well, both on brand metrics and on cost per action. So, uh, our goal right now is to just have as many conversations and just do as many tests as possible.

[00:16:26] And let the advertiser see how well it performs comparatively to other things.

[00:16:31] Damian: I guess the next question would be how well does it perform? You know, what kind of data insights are you getting back to provide to advertisers?

[00:16:39] Dave: Yeah, so, uh, we are seeing so we've done some disco studies on brand ones, and we're seeing on average 30 to 40 percent increase in brand metrics, which is huge. That was not that's actually outside of what we anticipated and hoped for on that one. And I think probably the big one was when we've run some cost per lead campaigns for SAS [00:17:00] cloud service.

[00:17:01] We cut their CPLs by 75%. So just eliminating the inaccuracy and focusing your spin on deterministic direct connections with those advertisers or with those, with those customers as has worked extremely well.

[00:17:18] Damian: Yeah, that's a high fidelity audience. I, I, I like that phrase.

[00:17:23] Damian: I guess we have to have a question about ai, right? We have to talk about ai.

[00:17:44] Um, you know. In April, Intuit introduced an AI assistant to its core product. Products, I should say, um, in TurboTax. It's going to shorten the time to file taxes, credit karma, users [00:18:00] get personalized financial information advice, I should say, and users can generate marketing content in MailChimp. You know, how are you and SMB Media Labs using AI?

[00:18:09] Yeah,

[00:18:13] Dave: we built, we are a managed service. So we are doing the buys and executing for the time being. That is something that is very difficult to scale because for us it is kind of core to Google. Make sure that the, that the media that we're buying, not only is targeted, but it's performing.

[00:18:29] So there's a lot of optimizations that we want to be able to make recommendations on and act on. Uh, it's hard to do that. You know, our goal is to have hundreds of advertisers. You can't optimize hundreds of advertisers. So there are tools that we are bringing on board that actually use AI to understand how the various campaigns are performing, are able to serve up some sort of triggered recommendations based off of that.

[00:18:51] Um, and that allows our team to scale and really make sure that everything that we're doing is. hitting the benchmarks and exceeding the benchmarks that we want them to do [00:19:00] across all of our advertisers.

[00:22:09] Damian: One question I guess from that is, you know, the actual marketing of the SMB, uh, the actual marketing of SMB MediaLabs, how do you think about that?

[00:22:21] Dave: Uh, well, the marketing of SMB Media Labs is a lot of. Conversations like this. Um, so I'm a little bit on a podcast tour. I am, I'm going to be at Cannes. So we do have a space in the media link to a can where we're going to be having a number of meetings, speaking engagements. Um, it's, it is different enough that it does require a little bit of explanation and, you know, in full transparency, there's an added hurdle that as it stands now, we are a managed service.

[00:22:45] So, um, it is. It adds complexity to what a traditional we are not doing the model where we just park our data and anyone can go and pull it like through a marketplace. We still have to control. And that's that's because we want to have the highest bar possible for how we [00:23:00] control our data. So it just takes more conversations.

[00:23:03] But, uh, You know, we are doing some programmatic media buying and we're doing some digital out of home in the elevators of a lot of the major agencies in New York City. So we're, we're trying to really focus in on, on both the agencies and the advertisers that would be interested in something like this.

[00:23:19] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned.

[00:23:24] Ilyse: The current podcast theme is by Love and Caliber. The current team includes Cat Vessey and Sydney Cairns.

[00:23:30] Damian: And

[00:23:30] remember I'm Damian.

[00:23:32] Ilyse: I'm Elise.

[00:23:33] Damian: And we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review.

[00:23:38] Also, tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report.

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Las Vegas Raiders’ SVP of Marketing Kristen Banks joins The Current Podcast to discuss the importance of balancing old and new fan bases alike, and not just in Las Vegas.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

[00:00:00] Damian: I'm Damian [00:00:01] Illyse: And I'm Ilyse Liffering and

[00:00:02] Damian: welcome to this edition of The Current [00:00:04] Illyse: This week, [00:00:05] we're delighted to talk with Kristen Banks, the SVP of Marketing for the Las Vegas Raiders, formerly known as the Oakland Raiders, and for a while the Los Angeles Raiders from 1982 to 94,

[00:00:18] Damian: but since 2020, the Raiders have made their home in Las Vegas, and this year the Raiders hosted the Super Bowl at Allegiant Stadium.

[00:00:26] That's the first time in NFL history that a Super Bowl was played in the state of Nevada.

[00:00:31] Illyse: In fact, the match was the most streamed in history by a record setting audience.

[00:00:37] Damian: Now, although the Raiders weren't playing in the match, the event marked a watershed moment for the NFL, for Las Vegas, and the game in general. [00:00:45] We started by asking Kristen what all that attention meant to the Raiders.

[00:00:51] Kristen: it's incredible. Uh, you know, coming into working for a brand that's been around 60 years. So the Raiders organization is [00:01:00] been, you know, around since 1960 and they've never hosted a Super Bowl. So for the first time, you know, coming to a new stadium being built in Las Vegas in 2020, not having it open for the first two years that the stadium was in full operations because of the pandemic, And then fast forward to this year hosting the Super Bowl on a wide, really global stage. [00:01:26] was incredible. It was incredible for the brand. It was incredible for the city of Las Vegas. And I think it really represents a new chapter in sport and what's happening in this city.

[00:01:40] Illyse: And you know, also thanks to streaming and probably also Taylor Swift a little bit, let's be honest, we're seeing new fans come to the NFL.

[00:01:49] Kristen: What I would say is again, drafting back to the pandemic is that there's, you know, there was already a change in consumer behavior and how consumers were 

[00:02:00] absorbing and watching content. Certainly with the pandemic that increased that aptitude. And so you saw this incredible spike in how people are consuming content, certainly migrating away from being cord cutters or potentially Cord nevers who had a cable package and moving into streaming services.

[00:02:20] Certainly you see that even more so with the younger population and Gen Z. It's about simply. Being available to every audience type that's out there, and that could be on their mobile phone, on their tablet, when they're watching the game, still on regular television, but going to social media platforms or YouTube to consume additional content that only enhances the experience.

[00:02:46] Damian: That's interesting. One of the things that you said to me, Kristen, was about that streaming and second screen experiences that, in effect, there's a sort of virtual community of fans who are sharing content as the action is happening and unfolding. [00:03:00] How do you think about that and leverage that as a marketer? [00:03:02] Because that seems like a pretty exciting real time opportunity.

[00:03:06] Kristen: It's such a unique world, right? Particularly for younger audiences, we'll say, under the age of 25, if they haven't documented it, then it's almost like it didn't happen. So, as a brand and as a marketer, you have to think about when someone's attending a game, when they're watching it at home, how are they engaging with the experience? [00:03:30] And how are you giving them? A opportunity to tell their story and what it means to engage and experience that activity with the brand. [00:03:40] , I'm quite new to the Raiders organization. I joined, um, six months ago, right at the start of the 2023 season. the height of Super Bowl. And so my team is deep in the throes of the strategy and planning of how do we build audiences and how do we ultimately create customer journeys long [00:04:00] term. [00:04:00] When you think about the avidity scale of the very core passionate fan who maybe is a season ticket member, buys merchandise can't get enough of the Raiders podcast that type of fan. is very different than a very casual fan so for a very casual fan, I'm not going to immediately try to sell them on a season ticket member because they're likely not at that stage of ready to make that commitment financially, ready to make that time commitment. [00:04:31] So how do I get them to watch a piece of content? So it's really about building out each person individually and saying, okay, this subset of fans represent this group and follow this typical pathway. [00:04:45] And these types of fans that are much more avid may follow a very different pathway. And this is what this looks like.

[00:04:51] Damian: I'm very curious on the, you know, when you mentioned the coach and the teams and all that dynamic that goes on, how much access do you and [00:05:00] your marketing team have to that? How do you, how does that kind of infuse what you have to do on the, on the executive front?

[00:05:06] Kristen: From week to week, you know, win or loss, you know, there's this constant narrative that's playing out on a real time stage and on social media and live on broadcast. And so then you have to say, okay, how do we ultimately take that draft quickly? If maybe a player made a stunning catch, or had a, you know, a fumble, or did something on the field that was really extraordinary, how do we then, you know, how do we dovetail off of that? [00:05:39] How do we create content? Taking those things that are really quick hits and ultimately doing a quick turn to be relevant and, you know, in that social media moment of continuing to capture that interest and intent.

[00:05:55] Damian: That's really interesting. And the way that advertising now is deployed in a much more agile [00:06:00] way makes that all the more possible, I assume.

[00:06:03] Kristen: Right. I would say, there's challenges with that. Yes, for sure. It's. It's easier to do nowadays. I mean, certainly you've got social media, you've got digital content. It's easy to push something out, but you also have the challenge of, as you think about customization and personalization and audience segmentation, what does that look like, right? [00:06:24] Is it five different messages? Is it three different messages? Is it one different message, but a different channel? So, you know, Even still, when you're trying to move as quickly so that you're still relevant, and it's happening, that lightning in that moment, you have to also be able to take a pause, say, what's the strategic approach here, and is this reflective of the right audience, and where do we ultimately push this to make it relevant?

[00:06:52] Illyse: I feel like the NFL and sports leagues overall, There's a lot of, like storylines that you can actually, draw from, and, like, [00:07:00] personalities. , everybody has their favorite player their favorite moment in time that that player, really succeeded. [00:07:08] How do you then use these storylines to, like, infuse your marketing content as you think about, keeping things relevant and authentic?

[00:07:17] Kristen: My background is sports and entertainment, which has really what I'd like to say is baked in stories and they're happening on a daily basis, right? I think it's why when we then partner with brands or we bring in partnerships and we say, okay, brand X, Y, Z, who maybe doesn't have some of those built in storylines to play from, how do they make what they're doing, you know, speak to the fan base

[00:07:43] Illyse: do you think that even work with brands that don't have an obvious affinity with a sports team? Like how do you create then like extensions of the story?

[00:07:54] Kristen: I'll pick on maybe a little bit of finance and insurance because maybe they're not as sexy, [00:08:00] but, in naturally partnering with a brand or a sports property helps allow that to happen. And then it creates that opportunity to say, Okay, well, that finance or that insurance brand, you know what, when there's a setback, oh, that may relate to somebody's personal life in how they're investing, right? [00:08:20] And that's easier for brands to attach to versus having to try to create something from scratch. one of the interesting narratives that came out of 2023 season was certainly with our Interim head coach, who's now the head coach, Antonio Pierce. [00:08:44] And he's an incredible figure and certainly quite the motivator and just, gives these incredible speeches and really. Kind of these amazing lines that just play really well into marketing. Um, and it was, okay, how do [00:09:00] we create a whole blackout kind of experience? It was clear they weren't going to be making the playoffs, but how do we still make it impactful to the fans that they want to show up, that they want to watch, so if you take that story of, okay, everybody's going to dress in all black in the way that he does. [00:09:17] Show up and represent, which is usually kind of one of his sayings and to see that come to life, to see many of the fans dressed in all black at the game, to see messages of encouragement posted on social media. And then, which it was incredible to see him walk off the field and have people chanting. [00:09:39] For the coach, that's that's quite unheard of. So that was a really cool. Um, it was a really cool moment to see and witness and from a marketing side, help create that,

[00:09:52] Damian: yeah, so the executive side of the Las Vegas Raiders, you've got a very powerful story there too. And I know that it's a team [00:10:00] of firsts with the first female black president of an NFL team and more. [00:10:05] I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, you know, that side of the story.

[00:10:09] Kristen: I think, you know, the Raiders has a really an illustrious history. , you have, you know, the first black head coach. You had the very first female president in the NFL. They all came from the Raiders. Now you have the very first female black, uh, president of the Raiders. And so, you know, it's an organization that's been in firsts. [00:10:33] Over the past 60 years, and so it's incredible to say that, you know, whether it was, , Mark Davis, our owner of the Raiders, or his father, Al Davis, they constantly said it was really always about just finding the right person for the role and really just that. And not, and diversity and inclusion becomes just part of that because you want to make sure that you're representing [00:11:00] the audience in the right way.

[00:11:02] Kristen: And to be at the forefront of doing that is to make sure that in the back office, and on the field, and in the coaches and staff all reflect that representation as well. And so I think that's just a fabric of the Raiders DNA that's always been present. But To be here now, to be part of the leadership team, to have, a female president who's African American, to be a part of that executive group as myself being a female and being in sports, it's really trailblazing and it's an exciting, uh, time for sure

[00:11:37] Illyse: Do you believe that then has an effect on the marketing? I know, there are obviously a ton of female, NFL fans out there and Raiders fans, I'm sure. And, I feel like. Often, though, football is more marketed to men. Do you feel that having more women in those, [00:12:00] power roles really speaks to the women that are fans?

[00:12:04] Kristen: Yeah, I think it has to. I think it's a natural influence and that, you know, whether it's women, whether it's other ethnicities, whether it's different backgrounds, different cultures, all of that is really important because if you think about just, right, I'll just take Las Vegas because that's obviously where the Raiders, our home base is now. [00:12:28] We certainly reach a lot of other markets and audiences, but I'll talk about Las Vegas, which is. You know, naturally, just about 50 50 split in between men and women. 28 percent of the audience in Las Vegas is Hispanic. 11 percent is, is Asian Pacific Islander. Las Vegas is called the Ninth Island for a reason, a lot of Hawaiian transplants. [00:12:53] And also 10 percent is African American. So, you look at that really [00:13:00] diverse fabric of people in Las Vegas who could potentially be fans of the Raiders, and who ultimately we want to ingrain so that they feel the Raiders are their hometown team. The employee base should reflect that and I would say for sure, my background, my experience, and even my team around me, should reflect the diversity and diverse opinions of those communities for sure.

[00:13:29] Illyse: One of the most interesting facts about the Las Vegas Raiders is that you're a legacy brand, but you're now in a new location how do you ensure that you're engaging those fanbases while reaching new fans?

[00:13:45] Kristen: I think it's making sure that nothing that you're doing is going to, Be damaging to the core or feel not authentic. We certainly have still quite a fan base in Los [00:14:00] Angeles and Oakland [00:14:00] but then to say, okay, now we need to bring in. New fans, completely different that are not part of those generations that are introduced to the team because now we're here in Las Vegas that has never had an NFL team before that honestly never had any professional sports team up until the last. Five, 10 years, that would have been completely frowned upon in what was formerly called Sin City. [00:14:28] You never want to upset the core. But you want to make sure that you're doing something that still pushes the envelope a little bit so that you're constantly growing and adapting.

[00:14:38] Illyse: And, you know, I'm curious about this too because, you know, we're living in like a digital world now. Anybody can go on and stream like a Raiders game, no matter where they are. With fan bases, especially across cities, across states, does location matter as much these days to be a fan of a particular NFL team?

[00:14:59] Kristen: You know, [00:15:00] I think, think it depends. I think it depends on who you ask, and I think it depends on what type of fan and what avidity scale. And the reason I say that is, is I'll say, you know, the Raiders, we are very, proud of the fact that we have a season ticket member. In every state in some 15 countries, um, that are, that grace our stadium. [00:15:23] I mean, that's a little bit of, you know, a little panache to say that, but on top of it, you know, how fans have access, you know. Can look completely different to I mean, certainly your bread and butter are the people coming in the stadium, but the bigger appeal, the bigger growth potential are those fans watching at home. [00:15:44] And what's that experience? And to your point, at least that could be done really anywhere, right? And then to what they have access to. Um, some of that, you know, depends on live broadcast rights and where, games are aired. [00:16:00] But there's also an incredible amount of content, and for anybody under the age of 20, getting them to watch a full game sometimes is a challenge anyway, so they're going on TikTok and watching some highlights. [00:16:12] So, those really casual fans, keeping them engaged, which can be at home, on the go, in a different city, in a different country, is certainly relative and important, too, to the Raiders overall growth.

[00:16:28] Damian: So, Kristen, you talked, you mentioned that Vegas is pretty new to sports, but I do know that, you know, your background, which is very interesting. You're a lead marketer for the UFC, which was one of the original sports franchises in Vegas, along with boxing. I wonder about you. [00:16:47] You know, um, learned from that experience and you, you were in, the midst of, this in, as, as the city has kind of evolved into this sports center in a way. It

[00:16:56] Kristen: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I [00:17:00] moved to Las Vegas back in 2015. was with the UFC for eight years there, formerly worked in entertainment for NBCUniversal in Orlando. so I'll say I've always been, had a background of cast of characters and rich stories to play with. But on that end, you know, when we moved back in 2015, Very different landscape. [00:17:22] One, there was no stadiums. and there certainly was no talk of baseball, basketball, or really any other national sport. and so UFC had planted a flag many years ago as already being a boxing town where you'd have, you know, big events. [00:17:40] But what I will say is, is that is good timing of having that past experience because you're trailblazing. You're saying, okay. How do we set a flag here? How do we do this? How do we make this work? How do we get fans engaged locally? To then parlay that into what I'm [00:18:00] doing now, which is working for the NFL and working for, a team locally that has such an incredible, brand recognition, brand storyline. [00:18:12] And building from that is to say, okay, well, I can take some of what I've learned from UFC trailblaze and say, how do we make that cool and relevant, to new fans here in Las Vegas?

[00:18:25] Illyse: Speaking of Vegas how is the Raiders , leaning into sports betting in any way?

[00:18:30] Kristen: In Las Vegas, because of naturally the betting and the gambling and maybe it feeling like, Oh, this is, this is too taboo for a sports team to come to Las Vegas. but today, you know, some of our partners are sports betting partners. Um, we have MGM bet, who's a corporate sponsor. We have DraftKings, and there are league partnerships with sports betting partners.

[00:18:56] Naturally, I'd say, it's really working with the [00:19:00] teams individually to say, hey, how do we make sure that we make sure that the game stays pure, that it's really just more of a fan focal point, but that those two don't intersect. [00:19:12] Illyse: Yeah, It's definitely interesting. The Raiders are kind of, I would say different from a lot of other NFL teams and I'm curious about what you would say about why that is. For instance, like the nickname, I know Raider Nation is, is really strong and the fans are . Maybe some of the most spirited in, yes, in the league, I would say. What do you think?

[00:19:38] Kristen: They really represent and tap into what the Raiders brand is, which is about individuality. [00:19:46] It's about, being yourself authentically. It's about doing it in such a way that's very different, almost cosplay esque. Playing into that it's the team for maybe the [00:20:00] non sports fan, you know, and silver and black, and how cool are those colors that everybody looks good in black. So I think there's, there's just so much fun. [00:20:12] And then I think about, you know, just where the Raiders came from to, you know, our incredible history of Al Davis being the owner, and commitment to excellence, having pride and pride and poise, those things and that and that kind of ethos, plays into everything of what we do, and I think that the fans gravitate to that because it's something they can identify with.

[00:20:39] Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. [00:20:41] We'll be back next week so stay tuned. [00:20:44] Illyse: The current podcast theme is by Love and Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesey and Sydney Cairns.

[00:20:51] Damian: And remember [00:20:52] Kristen: You never want to upset the core. But you want to make sure that you're doing something that still pushes the envelope a little bit so [00:21:00] that you're constantly growing and adapting. [00:21:02] Damian: I'm Damien [00:21:03] Illyse: I'm Ilyse.

[00:21:04] Damian: we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave a review. Also tune in to our other podcast, The Current Report,

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