The Big Impression

The NFL’s Marissa Solis on the Taylor Swift effect, expanding globally, and the powerful messaging coming for the Super Bowl.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler: (00:01)

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:02)

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And

Damian Fowler: (00:03)

Welcome to this edition of The Current podcast.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:10)

This week we're delighted to talk with Marissa Solis, the SVP of Global and Consumer Marketing for the NFL

Damian Fowler: (00:17)

In 2021, the NFL recruited Marissa after almost two decades As a marketing leader with PepsiCo, it was an opportunity to influence the league's almost 400 million sports fans around the world.

Marissa Solis: (00:32)

It's an incredible feeling when the NFL calls and especially with an opportunity to influence the messaging and the marketing of such an incredible platform with so much potential. You know, it's something, an opportunity I can pass up.

Damian Fowler: (00:45)

I mean, there's no doubt about it that the NFL is one of the most dominant cultural forces in the world. So let's start right there. And we obviously have to start with the NFL's, which recent pop culture boost from Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, which is must be a consumer marketer's dream in a way. Could you talk to us about that moment and the opportunity for you as a marketer?

Marissa Solis: (01:05)

It means a lot when things like this happen and it goes so viral, it just goes to show that the NFL is at the peak of, you know, entertainment. I have to tell you, none of us knew this was not planned. This was not anything that was orchestrated. We had sort of heard the rumors about Travis, you know, going to her concert and then inviting her to the game. But we really didn't know. We didn't know she was gonna show up at the game. And so when it all happened, I mean the power of social media, right within 10 seconds this thing went viral. And for us, you know, we have a social media and influencer arm within the league that are ready at the go when anything happens. So we were able to capitalize and have some fun with the fans. Uh, we created some 1 0 1 football videos for Swifties that had never seen the game before on how you play. But think about all of the NFL fans that don't know who Taylor Swift is. So we also were able to do a little bit of education to some of our NFL fans about who she is. So it's actually been a cultural education for a lot of people and we've had a lot of fun with it. Yeah,

Ilyse Liffreing: (02:10)

Thank you for clearing that up because I think a lot of rumors circulating was like, oh, the NF L's behind it, they know this happened. Had no idea they a plan

Marissa Solis: (02:17)

Idea. No idea. But I, I think, you know, it's a really good lesson for marketers. Mm-hmm. Culture happens at the speed of light and you just have to be ready. You know, we like to say or think we create culture, but culture is organic and embedded culture just happens and we just happen to be ready at the moment, right? Yeah.

Damian Fowler: (02:37)

There's no doubt that the Super Bowl is the high point of the year. Curious, are you gonna be using some of these immovable cultural forces like Taylor Swift and Kelsey in your Super Bowl messaging?

Marissa Solis: (02:47)

You know, we always leveraged the Super Bowl to do some powerful messaging around the joy of the sport, but also how the sport transcends. So last year the message was all around the power of women and what women bring to the sport. And now we're in the Olympics. So you're gonna see some powerful messaging about what the league means to culture. It will be a very powerful message.

Ilyse Liffreing: (03:10)

On that note, do you have like a favorite Super Bowl ad?

Marissa Solis: (03:13)

I did not even know you were gonna ask me that by the way. But I have to say, and it's very ironic, my favorite Super Bowl out of all times was actually created by Tim Ellis, who's my boss. He was not at the NFL at the time, he was at Volkswagen and it's the Darth Vader spot. You know, I don't know if you know where the, where the little boy he's playing Darth Vader and at the end the dad turns on the car and he's like, oh my God, I love, love that spot. And when I interviewed with Tim that was like the first thing I

Damian Fowler: (03:44)

Wanted to just pivot a little bit. I saw an interview in the Hollywood reporter with uh, the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who was headlined Hollywood's MVP. And in that piece he talks about how the NFL has embraced streaming, which you know is a topic we talk about a lot. And he was quoted as saying

Marissa Solis: (04:00)

The

Damian Fowler: (04:01)

Technology's changing, the platforms are changing, the economy is changing and we have to be ahead of that strategy at all times so that we are where our fans are and on the platforms they want to be on. Can you talk to us a little bit about the challenge

Marissa Solis: (04:12)

And

Damian Fowler: (04:13)

Opportunity of these streaming platforms that he's talking about

Marissa Solis: (04:17)

Really more of an opportunity. It really becomes about, like he said, being where our fans are and we know particularly Gen Z, they're not necessarily watching linear tv. They're not spending three and a half hours, you know, watching a game. And so that's why platforms like Google and YouTube and having Sunday ticket on there opens up an incredible way to distribute our content. Also it opens up the power of the creator economy for us because we can leverage a lot of YouTube's creators to create content to attract this audience. You think about all of the different things we've been able to do with that YouTube partnership, every club has a YouTube channel. We have our Spanish language NFL channel. So we've been able to do a lot with Google and YouTube. We also have our Thursday night football partnership with Amazon. So for the first time ever, this is the second year that a Thursday night a big platform game is completely streamed. We're now commanding on average 13 million viewers a week on a streaming platform. That's massive. I don't know if you guys know this, but this will be the first year in history that we create a Black Friday game on Amazon. So first time ever there's a Friday NFL game, it's on Amazon Prime but it's going to be free. So it's not behind the paywall. Anybody can join, anybody can stream it. So we think it's gonna be huge.

Damian Fowler: (05:38)

That's gonna be huge. Yeah. Wow. Another huge cultural force. Another

Marissa Solis: (05:42)

Huge cultural force. So now you have a Black Friday game, you know, it's a new watching occasion.

Ilyse Liffreing: (05:47)

What do you think overall about like streaming and live sports coming together and just captivating like whole new audiences? I know with the brand like the NFL, which everybody knows, it's kind of can be hard to like strike a balance between embracing like new preferences and habits of like younger consumers while also then maintaining the authenticity and tradition of a brand as like iconic as the NFL.

Marissa Solis: (06:12)

Yeah, of course. And it, it is the right balance and the beautiful thing is when you look at linear tv, even though you know you start to see some audiences leave linear, we still command the biggest audiences on linear, right? We just had our largest game ever on Sunday night with 28 million viewers. Now some of that may have been the Travis and Taylor Swift effect, but we're still commanding audiences on linear. However, when you look at the opportunity to do streaming, like I said, direct to consumer, we just launched our direct to consumer platform, NFL plus. And so you can also stream games on your mobile, you can look at statistics, you can look at lifestyle and stories, uh, of the players and really get much more involved in the game than just watching, you know, the traditional three hour game. There's a lot more there to, to see and learn about.

Ilyse Liffreing: (07:04)

Now part of your remit is to help diversify the marketing for the NFL or as you put it so nicely, future-proof the brand. I have read that 60% of the NFL audience is white and over 35 the America of the future however will be very young and multicultural. So how do you approach this challenge?

Marissa Solis: (07:23)

I think that stat that you read is probably about two years old and interestingly enough, that was one of the reasons I came to the NFL. In order for us to stay relevant in the future, we have to reflect the audiences that we serve. And as the world gets more multicultural as Gen Z and Jen A as they kind of come into being, we really have to embrace them and bring 'em in. So part of our strategy is to keep the fan base we have, but a big part of our strategy is to extend to those new audiences. So that includes, you know, gen Z and younger audiences, but also multicultural audiences, our Latino audience, our African American and Asian audience, our L-G-B-T-Q community. Like we really need to embrace them and bring them in to engage with a sport in a new way.

Damian Fowler: (08:11)

Can I just ask, how specifically do you try to engage those different communities?

Marissa Solis: (08:16)

Yeah, I think it's about meeting them where they are, both from a channel perspective, right? How they're watching, but also understanding how they engage with the game. They all engage with the game very, very differently. You know, our Latino audience is an example. The way they watch, the way they celebrate, the way they tailgate is very, very different. They bring in their traditions and so we wanna celebrate that. We've been doing a lot this year to really highlight Latino players 'cause people don't even realize we have 51 Latino players on the roster playing and each one of them has a very unique and different story. So you know, whether it's Fred Warner from the 49 ERs ERs who's a Mexican descent or young Colombian player, you know, who just got drafted in the league Rodriguez who plays for the Patriots. It's all about kind of bringing to life in a very different way to these audiences, uh, the game. And

Ilyse Liffreing: (09:09)

One of those audiences is women too. And the NFL has made a big effort towards getting more women involved in the game, both as staff and then as fans. What are some ways you're trying to connect your marketing to women?

Marissa Solis: (09:21)

Yeah, I think women, you know, are big part of our fan base. Almost 47% of our fan base are women. We have the highest women fan base percent of any league in the country and women love football, right? So it really is about engaging them in the game in a unique way, recognizing not just how they engage and watch the game, but also how they participate. I don't think people realize we have so many women champion players, right? Both flag football but also tackle. I just heard that there was the first ever high school girl that just got a scholarship to play tackle to be the kicker for a college team. So more and more women are participating, they're becoming coaches, trainers, scouts, you know, executives. So it's a great way to kind of see that level of participation. And of course, you know, we have to get back to Taylor and the swifty effect capturing this fan base, right? The swifties as you call them and really having the opportunity to educate them, bring them in, bring kind of that cultural fandom, the lifestyle, whether it's the music, the fashion, the food, all of those things are part of the NFL and part of the sport. So it just makes it richer and and more relevant.

Ilyse Liffreing: (10:37)

Do you see that Taylor Swift effect, if you will, kind of more as like a flash in the pan or do you think they'll have like a last engagement? Especially with women?

Marissa Solis: (10:45)

What I think is important for us is that we have a moment in time where swifties, as we call 'em, are paying attention. And so this is our moment to capture them and bring 'em into the sport so that they engage ongoing. Whether the Taylor Swift effect last or doesn't last, we wanna keep that fan base and we'll do so by again being culturally relevant, bringing in their life, their music, their fashion, the way they really wanna engage the game.

Damian Fowler: (11:13)

The NFL really is a cultural force and a lot of brands look to the NFL as sort of a beacon for sports across the media landscape. You know, I'm wondering how, you know, you approach distribution and partnerships in your marketing and what brands can learn from how you approach it.

Marissa Solis: (11:28)

I mean, again, it's really about being where the fans are. So every partnership matters, right? And we take every partnership very seriously. And so whether it's a partnership that has a lot of reach so that we reach a massive audience or maybe it's a partnership that will reach somebody different, whether it's in another country or a segment of, you know, the fan base that we haven't reached before. We have a very nascent platform right now as an example called Mundo, NFL. It is a podcast based platform and again, it's reaching a completely new audience and may not be as broad based as, you know, a Google or a YouTube, but it's still important for us 'cause we're reaching that fan base. So it's a balance of reach, very, very targeted, but just making sure that we are offering the content and distributing it out there to, you know, every corner of the fan base as I call it.

Damian Fowler: (12:22)

What kind of market research do you do to stay ahead of where fans are moving and the kind of things that they want to engage with and how that is evolving? Yeah,

Marissa Solis: (12:29)

We're very, very engaged in research 24 7, 3, 6 5. The very basic, you know, we do keep a pulse on how the league is doing with fans. We know perception, uh, we measure certain attributes, you know, are we inclusive, are we fun, are we engaging? And we measure them across all those audiences. And that is ongoing, right? In terms of culture, I wish I could tell you the, the formula, there really isn't one. It really is about having a very engaged team. As I mentioned, we have an incredible social and influencer team led by Ian Trombetta, which I gotta give them a shout out. They are incredible. They're in the culture and they hear things and they observe and they do a lot of social listening. And when something like Taylor Swift showing up to the game happens, even though we didn't know about it, they're on it immediately. And I think that's, that's where the success comes from. Where

Damian Fowler: (13:22)

Do you find inspiration in, in what's going on in the larger culture?

Marissa Solis: (13:26)

We like the balance of timeless and timely. You've gotta keep these timeless essence about you that creates your brand, but you also have to be really timely, right? I'll also say what inspires me at our brands with purpose, because we aren't just about the game, we transcend the game. We're such a big platform, we wanna make an impact to communities everywhere and we bring people together. We can uplift, you know, underserved communities. So when I see brands like Patagonia doing things, they aren't for necessarily for the profit of it, they're for the good of the community and the world. Those things inspire me as well.

Damian Fowler: (14:04)

You have a great deal of responsibility. It's one of the most powerful brands. Do you feel that sense of responsibility

Marissa Solis: (14:09)

Every single day? There's so many eyes on the league, anything that happens is talked about. We don't control the players, we don't control. When Taylor shows up to a stadium, we, we don't control it. It is an incredible sense of responsibility to try to at least shape the culture so that, you know, the message is a positive one and we make a positive impact, not a negative impact. So that, that's a tough one. Now,

Ilyse Liffreing: (14:36)

Earlier this year you announced that NFL expanded its global markets program. Can you tell us a bit about that and then what the marketing opportunity looks like internationally for American football?

Marissa Solis: (14:48)

Super exciting. This is probably one of the things I'm most excited about, about the league. You know, arguably we're the biggest sports and entertainment entity in the us. Not so much in the world. When you look and see the power of FIFA and, and the power of Formula One, like we want to the number one sports and entertainment entity in the world. Now we've expanded, we have 21 of our clubs have signed international rights in all sorts of countries. So everywhere from Ireland, Africa, you know, Brazil, uh, Spain. And so in the very, very near future, you're gonna start to see more and more international games, more and more of our clubs playing in the global arena. And of course, I I have to mention the Olympics, right? We are now in the Olympics for LA 28, which we'll see, you know, both men and women participating in our sport for the first time across the world. I

Damian Fowler: (15:46)

Read that you were, you studied to be, uh, an an ambassador.

Marissa Solis: (15:50)

I did, I did.

Damian Fowler: (15:51)

So this is an interesting, you know, turn of events for you.

Marissa Solis: (15:54)

It is, um, it's very ironic in very much a way. I feel like an, I'm an ambassador to the fan base and different communities. So it's been fun. Yeah,

Damian Fowler: (16:03)

I mean the NFL in a way it's a state unto itself.

Marissa Solis: (16:06)

You could say that. Yes, .

Ilyse Liffreing: (16:07)

Now the NFL is arguably the most sought after brand to partner and align advertising with, but it's also very seasonal. So how do you maintain engagement and relevance in the off season?

Marissa Solis: (16:18)

You know, it's funny you say that. It's absolutely not seasonal. We are 365 year round. I actually saw that come to life this year. We just got statistics back during the quote unquote off season in the month of June. We had over 200 million hours of content consumed. We were, I think the third league. And that's without any games or anything like that. So I think annually the stat is we're 45% of the sports conversation and only 2% of the games played in the us. That's a US number. And it's incredible, right? Because in the off season people are talking about the free agents who's gonna sign on what team, and then you get content like the quarterback series on Netflix. And now we've got partnerships with like, we have a partnership with Skydance to create stories and movies. Then you come have back together Saturday and training camps and then you have the preseason. So there actually really isn't an an off season anymore. I'm

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:18)

Sure that's changing with streaming too. 'cause you can just go

Marissa Solis: (17:21)

On content. Content is king, right? Content everywhere.

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:58)

One final question. In your view, what does the NFL look like in 2030?

Marissa Solis: (18:05)

I mean, I think, you know, the vision is that we are the pinnacle of entertainment around the world. And so that means amazing live sports, unpredictable seasons, right? Just like we have today. The game played in every country, and not just professionally on tv, but every country participating in the game of flag football, more Olympics, Netflix, or in the movie theaters, or much more storytelling around the incredible stories that this league represents. More diversity in the game, more diversity in the front office, in the coaching staff. So all, all good things, hopefully lots of impact.

Damian Fowler: (18:49)

And that's it for the current podcast. We'll be taking a break next week to celebrate Thanksgiving here in the us. But we'll be back at the end of the month with our guest, Jonathan Stringfield, the VP of Global Research and Marketing at Activision Blizzard

Jonathan Stringfield:

Gaming is increasingly going to be a hobby that is divorced from gaming devices virtually anywhere that there is a screen that's smart, there's probably gonna be an opportunity to play a game. 

Ilyse Liffreing: (19:02)

And if you love this podcast, be sure to subscribe and leave a review While you're at it. Check out our other show, the current report, our weekly roundup of what's happening in the world of digital media. The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by Loving Caliber. The current team includes Chris Brooklier and Kat Vesce.

Damian Fowler: (19:31)

And remember,

Marissa Solis: (19:32)

We aren't just about the game. We transcend the game. We're such a big platform. We wanna make an impact to communities everywhere.

Damian Fowler: (19:39)

I'm Damian

Ilyse Liffreing: (19:40)

And I'm Ilyse.

Damian Fowler: (19:41)

And we'll see you next time.

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Zillow’s Beverly Jackson on simplifying the housebuying process through its marketing, and why working at the company has special importance for her as a Black woman.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian: (00:01)

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse: (00:02)

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing.

Damian: (00:04)

And welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

Ilyse: (00:10)

This week we sit down with Beverly Jackson, the VP of Brand and Product Marketing at Real Estate Company Zillow with

Damian: (00:17)

Over 212 million average monthly users is the country's number one real estate app and a website. In fact, Zillow is becoming a housing super app designed to help people find the home of their dreams.

Ilyse: (00:31)

Beverly is an award-winning marketer with two decades of experience managing global campaign for companies, including the Recording Academy where she delivered record breaking social engagement for the 54th Grammy Awards, Yahoo, MGM Resorts International and at Twitter before it became X.

Damian: (00:50)

We started by asking her about this impressive career journey

Beverly: (00:58)

As I still like to think that I am always sort of new and fresh faced to digital marketing 'cause I tend to be a digital first storyteller and a digital first brand person. I always think about two things. What is the brand looking to achieve and how are we thinking about growing? And then I think about how does that connect to culture? And so whether it was the Grammys or Yahoo or MG M resource as a hospitality brand or a sports betting band or something like Twitter, it's always about what is the connection to the customer? Is it digital first? How does it play in transforming or growing the brand or the business or its role or impact. Share a voice, share a wallet in the industry vertical. And then the connection to culture. I think it's very important how a brand connects to its customers through culture is such a powerful way to tell brand stories. That was important for all the work that I've done previous and it's certainly the way I think about my role here at Zillow.

Ilyse: (01:58)

Would you say that was basically the opportunity that Zillow kind of created for you that was so compelling on your end?

Beverly: (02:06)

The idea that Zillow helps consumers more and more consumers get home and that's what we're sort of working towards. There's not a, not a bigger brand moment in a consumer's life than sort of helping them to figure out what home means. 'cause it's such a personal experience and, and with Zillow sort of being the destination for the real estate industry, it's a beacon for all consumers. And it's sort of getting them from that idea of like idea dreaming about what home they want to actually getting into a home. So the brand is transforming, it's culturally relevant, it's significant to a specific population and to others it makes so much sense to me. So like when we think about like millennial, the millennial consumers, it was not an opportunity that I could easily ignore or walk away from.

Damian: (02:52)

Now Beverly, I wanna ask you, you know, buying a home has always kind of been a complex process. To what extent would you say that the tech has speeded things up or maybe simplified that whole process?

Beverly: (03:02)

The idea is that buying a house, especially your first house is gnarly. Like it's so intense, it's so intense, it's so many moving parts, it's so confusing. But then we have this large generation of sort of digital first consumers that expect consumer tech to be a utility. The tech has to be easy and it has to demystify the complicated process. It has to serve the customer's needs to their ultimate goal, but it has to meet them where they are. Zillow as a consumer tech company, as a financial tech company, as a real estate company is making it easier, which is why we're so well situated for this idea of a housing super app where a consumer, regardless of where they are in the process, can come into the Zillow ecosystem and find a way to answer the questions that they need and help guide themselves through the process. 'cause the goal is not just to help them search for a great home or to talk to real estate agents before they find the perfect agent for them, but you've gotta tour a lot of houses. The housing super app concept in addition to financing and figuring out what you can afford and then financing it and then closing the deal, signing all the papers and actually getting into your home. Zillow is ideally situated to do that.

Damian: (04:22)

Just to break that down a little bit further, you know there are other property search engines out there, but Zillow goes above and beyond that. What is the differentiating factor at Zillow? And you mentioned some of those just now

Beverly: (04:34)

Customers are a north star without question. So the idea of customers being the driving force behind what we do and how we serve information back to them, meeting them where they are, offering them real tangible tools, techniques, information and solutions that meet their needs. And then also our partners having access to some of the best real estate agents in the business. The people who are the best of Zillow.

Ilyse: (05:02)

Now, how would you say like home buying reflects what's going on overall in society? I know right now for instance, interest rates are really high. It's, it's pretty expensive to buy a home. The data must, you know, really tell a story of what's going on overall in the US and around the world. How does Zillow tap into basically that culture too of like home buying?

Beverly: (05:24)

I think for me, this goes back to sort of the origins of Zillow. What Rich Barton our founder wanted to do was make sure that information was available to everyone. That there was transparency in how the listings were available, who could see them, how, how much a house was being sold for or how much a house was worth. Using transparency and information and access to information to empower consumers to help them better understand what we're doing and to help actually create a seamless, frictionless system for them to get home. I think that's the magic combination that is important to consumers. Whether interest rates are 2.2% or whether they're 8%, unfortunately

Ilyse: (06:12)

Now with all that going on is now the right time to buy?

Beverly: (06:17)

I think now is the right time for the right consumers. We have so many economists and data scientists on staff and they're always looking to monitor the markets to understand what product offerings are right and get that information back out to our customers so that customers are empowered and they can decide for themselves. And then when you partner them with a great agent and you can help get them the best financing for their situations, it becomes more likely that more people will find it the right time for them.

Damian: (06:52)

I'm curious, you know, there must be some interesting insights into what people want, you know, weird homes, homes with bowling alleys, I think you've talked about. Could you talk a little bit about what the data tells you and why it's fundamental in a way to the way you market? Zillow,

Beverly: (07:07)

Our latest consumer housing trends report shows that half of the buyers are doing it for the very first time. They need lots of information. And so it's about creating product and information for them. But we also know that the median home buyer in the US are partnered or married. They have at least some college education and they're most likely to buy a home in the southern part of the United States. So making sure that we have the right information and the right tools for those consumers wildly important. But we also know that half of those people have kids under the age, age of 18 and most of them are under the age of five, which means that they need room for those families. And so we have a sense of like the kinds of homes that are going to come up in their search and creating personalized options and search options for them is important. There are no homes with bowling alleys in New York currently on the site that I'm aware of, you know, , but, but I think that there are some bowling alley homes out there.

Damian: (08:10)

You mentioned your brand campaign. Could you talk about the concept behind the latest one?

Beverly: (08:16)

It was really a lot of fun for the team at Zillow to lean into this idea that Zillow is a verb and that people are always Zillow and they're on the spot. I mean people spend, I think it's close to like 40 minutes on the app and on the website dreaming and being aspirational. And so the idea was how could we in a fun way, in a disruptive manner, use culture and culturally significant moment to connect people to their dreams and help it become a reality. And so the campaign spends a lot of time of breaking through barriers and noise for consumers about, they're not alone. It's super complicated, it's a complex experience, but Zillow can actually help you do all of these things that you need. And what you can count on us for is finding a weird home with a bowling alley or a wall of uh, , a fish tank and a wall.

Beverly: (09:14)

But it's also that you're gonna need to figure out what you can afford. You're gonna need to get pre-qualified. You're gonna need to get approved. You need to be able to, on your schedule, find an opportunity to tour the home, um, without having to talk to 15 people when you wanna be able to do it, when you wanna be able to do it. And so bringing that all together and that was making this a digital first storytelling experience and that's how the campaign came to life. Like there's lots of big iconic, thoughtful moments about changing the way consumers think about the concept of Zillow, but also presenting them with a suite of end-to-end solutions. Breaking that up and making it accessible to them. And then I think the piece that I'm super excited about that I was most excited about, about the campaign is how we're showing up in culture in unexpected places. And whether it's the NBA finals or in a movie premiere or through partnerships or your favorite podcast, but it's going where our customers are and having a conversation with them in a way that's meaningful to them. But it breaks through and it sort of disrupts the expectations of who we are and what they want from us.

Damian: (10:32)

I wanted to ask you off the back of that, you know, about the channels that you're exploring. 'cause clearly, you know, the customers are everywhere from connected TV to social media, to retail media even. So how do you think about those channels as a marketer? And a second part of that is, you know, who are you reaching? Who is your target audience?

Beverly: (10:52)

This campaign was really targeted at first time home buyers, right? And for them we think about that as a very millennial centric audience. And so we know that millennials are multicultural. We know that they're rooted in purpose. We know that they're mobile, so we know lots of things about millennials. We want it to be in places where those consumers were, right. And so we thought about connected television, we thought about uh, podcasts, we thought about movie premieres, we thought about sports as culture drivers and music as culture drivers. The other thing that's important to this as a concept is not just being national, but being local. I think people were super surprised to see us show up in a big way in a lot of our important local markets. Because remember, home buying and the real estate market is a national concept, right? And technology makes it accessible to everyone, which is Rich's first sort of democratizing information and making it accessible to everyone.

Beverly: (11:50)

But buying a home is a neighborhood experience. It's a local experience. People move street to street, neighborhood to neighborhood from one dog park to one school district to another. And that's very much a local experience. And so having the content and the creative and the storytelling go from top of funnel awareness to transaction and conversion at the bottom of funnel, and then having it go from national to local to neighborhood where your agent who knows the most about your community can help get you home. That was a really unexpected part of the campaign, I think for most people to see Zillow show up.

Damian: (12:30)

I also wanted to ask you, as you look across the United States, is there a prime buying season for real estate? And the reason I ask that is because I was looking around the Tri-state area and people were saying, oh, all the houses come on the market in May because people wanna move out of the area once their kids graduate high school and suddenly there's a surge of houses on the market. I wanted to find out if this is anecdotal or whether this is a reality, you know, in other words, , is there a moment in the year when real estate kind of booms?

Beverly: (13:02)

I think it's not completely anecdotal. There are definitely buying seasons. Um, no one, I'm from Chicago originally. No one wants to move in December. I think. Um, it's the idea of, uh, being in a walkup and having to carry down, uh, a very heavy dresser or an awkward sofa seems, um, not ideal. And if you live in Phoenix, you probably don't wanna move when it's 120 degrees, but people move when it's appropriate for their lives. There is definitely a buying season. And that's why for us, this campaign work that we're doing was so important. That's why it's really important that this work be bold, that it stand out, that it interrupt, that it disrupt so that people see it and know that Zillow is there to help them. And so we've, we've taken every step that we can take to make the cyclical nature of home buying as easy as possible.

Ilyse: (13:57)

Now let's end by putting, uh, this spotlight back on you a little bit. Um, you put purpose at the center of everything you do. Um, how does this role basically align with your values?

Beverly: (14:09)

The idea and the very promise of Zillow as a brand to help get more and more consumers home resonated with me at a very deep and meaningful level. Like we do great work, we have access to great data. We're a leading iconic bespoke brand. But as a woman of color and for someone who knows the importance and the significance of home ownership as a way to create generational wealth, as a place to feel safe, as a place to build something significant and rewarding for your life, you want that to be free of discrimination. You wanna have access to the homes that best meet your needs. That's in the core of who Zillow is. It's in their DNA. And so for me it was so personally significant and in addition to that, it was really important for me to want to be a part of evolving this brand.

Beverly: (15:04)

And I couldn't be more honored and more humbled by the opportunity to lead this brand and to lean into our brand promise. I love the idea of using consumer tech to help make it easy for people. I'm excited about the role that evolving Tech will help. The idea of building a housing Super app and creating an end-to-end connected experience for consumers that need access to information, couldn't be more excited to be a part of that. Um, it is the honor of a lifetime, quite frankly, for somebody like me who lives in a purpose-based marketing environment.

Damian: (15:43)

And that's it for the current podcast. Stay tuned because next time we'll be speaking with Marissa Solis, the SVP of Global and Consumer Marketing for the NFL.

Ilyse: (15:53)

It's a really good lesson for marketers. Culture happens at the speed of light and you just have to be ready. You know, we like to say or think we create culture, but culture is organic and embedded. Culture just happens and we just happen to be ready at the moment. The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by love and caliber. And the current team includes Chris Leyer and Catie. And remember,

Beverly: (16:20)

It's going where our customers are and having a conversation with them in a way that's meaningful to them. But it breaks through and it sort of disrupts the expectations of who we are and what they want from us.

Damian: (16:35)

I'm Damien and

Ilyse: (16:37)

I'm my lease. And

Damian: (16:38)

We'll see you soon.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

VML CEO Jon Cook on how the agency came up with Wendy’s now iconic social media presence, the innovations he hopes to see in the streaming ad space and commerce on Instagram.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Ilyse: (00:01)

I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And

Damian: (00:02)

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse: (00:03)

And welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

Damian: (00:10)

This week we sit down with John Cook, the newly minted global CEO of VML.

Ilyse: (00:16)

VML is the new name for what is now one of the world's biggest creative companies. It's the result of WPPs merger of two of its creative agencies, Wunderman Thompson, and VMLY and R. The new company will employ 30,000 people in 64 markets.

Damian: (00:34)

WPP says, the merger is about simplifying business and unlocking scale for its clients, which includes blue chip companies like Colgate, Palm Olive, Dell Ford, Microsoft, Nestle, and Coca-Cola.

Ilyse: (00:45)

John Cook joined the agency back in 1996 when it only had 30 employees, which back then was just called VMLA full circle moment. He starts by telling us about the significance of the merger announced in October.

Damian: (01:00)

And one note, the first part of this podcast was recorded live at advertising week, New York. So John's audio changes a few minutes into the podcast.

Jon: (01:11)

I think it represents a reaction to, um, to several things, a reaction for holding companies like WPP to be simpler and easier to access. These are, these are two great companies within WPP, but they're two big companies. And that that can create confusion or complexity in within WPP. I think we've always simplified that well, but this takes that to the next level. This is a radical move in terms of simplicity. So I think it represents the thirst that marketers have for a simpler holding company landscape. A simpler WPP absolutely does that. It represents, I think, I think a statement about where the future of marketing is going. That a lot of people are pursuing you on one level. You've got consultants, you know, big consultancies pursuing creativity and trying, they're trying to acquire it, hire it, build it, and, and all having various levels success with that.

Jon: (01:57)

This represents a move to have the scale of some of the biggest consultancies, but with a creativity that I think a lot of them are really trying to have. We will have that right from the beginning. It represents, uh, a statement about where a lot of advertising agencies who are trying to stay relevant are going, meaning a lot of advertising are fantastic creative organizations, but they're all grappling with how do I add commerce, CRM, loyalty, technology, data. We have all that. When you put these two things together, what what I hope, and I think what we hope is that we are jumping right to that place where ad agencies and consultants are both trying to go from two different directions. We go there right now from the jump globally with, uh, two companies that already know each other really well, and it's a lot easier to say.

Damian: (02:38)

And so in, in, in effect, it's driven by the changing economics of advertising.

Jon: (02:43)

Yes, I think I I don't think it's solely driven by the change, the economics of advertising. I think there are economic advantages to being simpler. 'cause you can, you can be more efficient in, in how you deliver your, your agency. You can be, you know, and you can offer a lot. But I think it's, I think it's more driven by a fusion that marketers are looking for, not to speak for all marketers, but I think they struggle with how do I get brand storytelling and the the stories I wanna tell my by brand? How do I get that closer and closer to my product, the customer experience? And if I've got that right as a marketer, how do I then put that closer to the way people buy my product or transact or make a commitment to me as a brand? We're not perfect, and it won't be perfect right off the bat, but we have a really good chance to be the agency that can unite brand experience, customer experience, and commerce. Those three things aren't in our ingredients because they're fun or because we like those words, they're in our ingredients because that's the trilogy that marketers are looking for to, this is the absolute answer. For some people

Damian: (03:41)

May be a little bit

Jon: (03:42)

Sad about saying

Damian: (03:43)

Goodbye to some of those famous, famous names.

Jon: (03:45)

Like,

Damian: (03:46)

Why

Jon: (03:46)

And not

Damian: (03:46)

What, what do you say to those people?

Jon: (03:48)

I'm obviously in the camp of believing that evolution and simplicity is necessary to, to, to kind of go forward, but I have a ton of, um, respect and empathy for the fact. There's a lot of, uh, big brands that have built this to this place that we, that we are in now. And I think all you can do as a leader is just do two things. You can respect the heritage. It's not just heritage for heritage sake, heritage of capability. There is greatness in all those companies. It still exists in each of those companies in the, in the new company. As much as we're gonna respect that heritage and, and, and use all those ingredients to build our capability, at some point we have to make it about the future. So it's about informing the future with, with all that heritage. So it's, it's not just heritage for heritage sake, it's heritage to inform a, a future. And that's a responsibility we have to, um, you know, you know, in any company, but certainly an agency, you're trying to create a future for people to do what they want to do, and you have to make decisions about what gives you the best chance to do that and do that powerfully. And this does that.

Ilyse: (04:47)

Now, we, as both previous journalism majors find this really interesting that you actually started your career as a journalism major at the University of Missouri in 1993. In 2018, you delivered even the commencement address at the School of Graduation Ceremony. So I'd love to know what words of wisdom you shared about like what journalism really meant to you and maybe how it has even like shaped you as a marketer. Uh,

Jon: (05:14)

I had worked at Disney World for a while, and I remember some of, some of the advice I gave was, you know, you're, you're journalists and it's all about facts and, and, um, you know, this story, but it said, never lose in, in all the story and all the facts. You know, never lose the ability to add some pixie dust to things. Uh, especially those of you who are going into strategic communications. The meaning that, you know, we should be the exciting part of someone's day and, and the, and never lose the idea of what Disney World does, which is they exceed these already crazy high expectations. And what can you do in your career to bring your own pixie dust to every situation? So any interaction with you or your brand has that pixie dust. And I think journalism today, it's, it's even more critical to have a little bit of a brand and to have a, an expectation that a journalist has a, has a point of view and has a brand and, and, uh, like it or not. That's, that's, that's critical.

Ilyse: (06:02)

Beyond that, do you have like a guiding like set of principles that you adhere to maybe even keeps you up at night?

Jon: (06:11)

It's pretty easy, which is just show up and follow up. It's served me well. The gravity of how you show up and how you follow up changes through the years. But it, in your early in your career, it might just be, Hey, be at meetings, be present, be in the office and follow up. Be the one who you people count on to when you're in a meeting, something happens as you become the, you know, like ACEO of a company. Your show up is more than just being there. Your show up is presence and, and bringing gravitas and bringing trust to a situation, you know, and I think we all can use the positions we have to, to show up and follow up at different levels, but show up and follow up and just keep that advice going.

Damian: (06:45)

What's interesting about your role as a, as a creative person is that interactivity, and you mentioned you were with the world's biggest brands, including Coca-Cola, Colgate Palm, olive Ford, Microsoft, the US Navy even, and, and Wendy's, you know, can you tell us a little bit more about what makes for a winning brand campaign? You know, obviously that pixie dust is, is part of it,

Jon: (07:07)

This will sound cliche, but finding that cultural resonance, the cultural relevance, the cultural interaction point that that makes a campaign go from being an announcement or a set of awareness to something that someone can participate in. And I don't just mean content co-creation, but I mean something that enters, enters people's lives and, and becomes part of them and or makes them feel something and take an action. Wendy's is a, is a long time great client, we've worked for 'em for 10 years and Wendy's was always kind of an old fashioned, maybe your grandfather or grandmother's brand, and we said, let's give Wendy a voice. Let's give her some sass invented this idea of, of how much sass Wendy would have, would be different by medium and by channel, but she would always be a little sassy to the point where then online when and on social media, Wendy would start to, to roast people.

Jon: (07:52)

Meaning kind of take take aim at somebody and not in a, not in a mean hearted way, but this idea of roasting someone. I say all that to say that it became as elaborate as we invented a, a national roast day holiday where then now every brand or a lot of brands around the world then on that day write Wendy and say, roast me. You know, so it might be Aflac saying, Hey, Wendy's roast me, and then Wendy, our, our Twitter will come back with a picture of a, you know, a cooked duck to add to that, that we are, Wendy's is a person, Wendy's is a, there's a name in the name. So we would be remiss not to have some personality, and then we'd be double remiss not to have personality that had some zing to it. So then you establish, okay, here's a place that can be believable. And I think it was also kind of a position that allowed Wendy's to be ageless. You don't know if Wendy's what age she is really, and we could, we could attach a personality that could kind of flex be a little more, a little more SaaS on Twitter, a little friendlier Wendy on Pinterest and everything in between. And it gave us a lot of flexibility. So yeah, it was, it was coming, there was an opportunity space in the market and we just totally filled it and we stayed with it for a decade.

Damian: (08:55)

How do you sort of like know when you've got your finger on something, how do you stay there? How do you stay relevant? How do you keep up with what's going on in the culture?

Jon: (09:05)

Oftentimes there's a, there's an interaction with a brand that's unintended or emerges organically. The more brave or the more aware brands are, are tapping into that. You see some of the work for Ford right now in the US is all about being from America and doubling down on America, but the level of volume that they were seeing online, the level of volume they're seeing and the passion out there, that's, that's something we need to not just respond to in social, but but double down into. And I think it's a good example of listening and, and, and kind of taking the cue from the way people are interacting with a brand.

Ilyse: (09:36)

Um, and obviously you've been in this career for like three decades now. To what extent has the nature of digital media changed anything for, for instance, I know creativity is definitely still premium, but there's such a different cadence to the ad calendar these days. Um, could you talk a little bit about that?

Jon: (09:56)

Spending time with a brand, entertaining yourself, educating yourself and shopping have all come together into one paradigm for each of us, no matter how the platforms evolve? That's what's the most exciting thing to me. And it's, it's actually how we're trying to build the agency. Because if you think about your own behavior, let's just take Instagram for example. You're, you know, you're, you're going to Instagram probably to entertain yourself. You end up buying something whether you need it or not. You're, you're gonna buy something you've educated your best self about a brand you didn't know. And you've gone deep on a whole new cultural thing that came into your life. You just went there to, to kind of kill time. And I think 20 years ago, my advertising moments were my ad moments, my shopping was my shopping. And I just love, I mean I I I'm sure you both experience this, it's, it's all coming together.

Ilyse: (10:36)

Why is following consumer behavior in this way connected to building a relevant agency? I know your tagline is all about like connected brands.

Jon: (10:46)

If you follow that trend, the idea of those things converging, you would build your agency completely different. And so a couple years ago we invested heavily in something that's not in a lot of ad agencies. This is just one example, but deep, deep global commerce and shopping capabilities. And so I, I hope we're doing it the right way, but that investment in an agency, an ad agency is uncommon. The reason we did it is the answer to your question, which was, if the way we're telling a brand story or inviting people to experience a brand is gonna quickly meet the ability, if we do our job on that, we're gonna have somebody wanting to make a commitment to that brand by buying something, joining something subscribing to something. And it's amazing, it took this long for people to realize that if you do a good enough job in your brand communications, you're going to have somebody who wants to, to take an action. So as agencies, I think we should be building in that, that capability. Other agencies may look at a different way, but if it's a quest for relevance, I don't think you can be a relevant agency without the ability to both tell the story and then complete the task of of, of being able to transact.

Ilyse: (11:48)

What about when it comes to like, streaming and like connected tv? How are you guys looking at that channel?

Jon: (11:54)

One way that we're really hoping happens is that those channels get way more advanced than they are right now about the way that advertising could be present. So Netflix, you know, would, would now sell a, an advertising model where you can pay a premium amount of money to have advertisement as the advertising agency or the story creators. Where I think we're lacking and we would like to see the biggest progress there is being way more creative with the formats you're able to to, to do. So I, I'm hoping as streamers get more and more into advertising, they're not just plopping 32nd TV formats on the front of, you know, a show you might watch on Netflix or just interrupting it four times throughout the hour for 62nd TV spots. There will be a huge miss. I do think a lot of 'em are going that direction first because it's just the nature of what's easy and convenient. But there will be a streaming platform that will break that up and allow brands to tell stories in a unique way and, and create entertainment on their platforms that lives next to that will be the, the platform that I will love. And that's what we're keeping our eye out for.

Ilyse: (12:52)

What about, um, when it comes to like shoppable ad formats on streaming, do you feel like there's a future there? I know it's kind of seems to be gaining some speed.

Jon: (13:01)

I was watching Billions the other day of shows, you know, I dunno if you watch billions or not, but you can actually go in and then see everything. 'cause you know, you liked that show for the, the glamor of all the, the clothes and the, you know, the, the cool settings and then you can kind of go in and see what everything costs that particular character and you're not able to then go buy it yet, but that next step would be able to go buy it or find out. And a lot of the stuff on there is pretty dreamy in terms of price, but as you could do that for things that pro that cost any amount and actually go see what everybody's wearing, this, this exists, it's just not mainstream yet. But I I love that idea. I think it's to where you're, where you're taking that question. I love the, the future there.

Damian: (13:36)

I'm wondering if there are any themes in advertising that sort of are changing with the culture and the digital culture too. I mean, we've had an important shift, you know, recently with brands marketing with Purpose. I'm kind of very interested in that relationship, you know, the underlying zeitgeist in a way and how that finds its way into ads. Is there anything that you've noticed that we could, we could put our finger on and say that's very now

Jon: (13:59)

Advertising agencies or brands? The word storyteller gets thrown out really liberally, you know, like it's, it's such a sexy word and it sounds really cool, but often I look at the work of our industry and including our own agency sometimes, and you're not really telling stories sometimes we're not living up to the sexiness of that word. The better brands are starting to, to truly tell story. I mean literally tell stories by creating content and creating entertainment and creating that right balance between, um, being entertained and, and getting across brand principles. And when you do that, you create something entertaining enough to hold a consumer's attention, then you've kind of earned the right to be as purposeful as you're, as you're describing the trend, you almost have to earn your right as a brand to talk about your purpose by creating a, a forum of something gripping and entertaining or, or compelling to then put that purpose through. Because I think purpose without that comes off a little preachy, uh, a little self-serving or a lot self-serving.

Damian: (14:55)

I I saw a new Kantar study recently that highlighted the importance of humor in advertising and said that after several years of super serious heartfelt purpose-driven ads, humor is making sort of welcome return. How and wise humor such an important brand building tool.

Jon: (15:09)

I mean, candidly, I, I, first of all, I miss humor. I think that notion is correct. I don't think it's coming back fast enough though. I think the, the industry advertising industry has so many award shows and so many award platforms, and I, I love that it's a chance to get your work out there, creates great work, creates great community, creates great awareness of the great work that agencies are doing. But some of it has gotten a little bit to the point where the best way to grip a, a jury or to grip somebody judging work is to do something that makes you cry or that makes you feel, uh, like you're saving the world. And so the work tends to go that way. It's really powerful, but that just, it just doesn't lend itself to any humor. It's the, the everybody taking themselves so seriously trying to create work that, that saves the world. I'm all for saving the world, but can we have some fun while we're talking about that? And I think, I think award shows in general, I'm not, not talking about anyone in particular need to do a better job of rewarding humor.

Ilyse: (16:05)

In 2022, you had a near death experience and as you told Adweek, you called it a story of either angels or coincidences. Can you tell us what happened and how it changed you?

Jon: (16:20)

Really healthy heart, really healthy, um, generally speaking and was running one night and, and basically died for eight or nine minutes without a pulse, uh, because of, um, a real freak show arrhythmia that I'd had for two weeks without knowing it. Just real, nothing hereditary or genetic about me. Just an odd thing, a very rare thing that happens to me. I was running at seven 30 at night on the street where there's not many people, but that particular moment, um, among other people, a uh, cardio doctor drove by. Like, like I told Adweek in that story you're talking about, if you had to write up who would drive by when you were dead with a heart thing, who would you want to drive by? Literally the exact description of who I'd want was this, um, cardio doctor who was, by the way, was coming home two hours early that particular night to see his brother who was in town and happened to be driving by still in his scrubs.

Jon: (17:09)

It's, it's just awesome that he, that he did that. The coincidence or the angel thing, somewhere in between all that was this guy stopping and not only, not only stopping somebody who stopped and used the skills that they possess, because what I've learned since it's one thing to know CPR, but there's a whole other level of then the bravery that it takes to notice somebody down to go use that CPR you've probably actually never used in your entire life. Put your hands on somebody's chest, crush their sternum, put your mouth on their mouth. It all sounds really good in the textbook. It all sounds good in the class, but somebody actually has to go do that. And then because somebody did that, you know, I'm still here.

Ilyse: (17:44)

How would you say though, that it has like, changed your life since that incident?

Jon: (17:49)

If you think about any friendship family member you have, if you just stop right now and thought, what was my last interaction with all them, you know, would it, would it be the right place with every relationship that was important to you? It's probably not, it's probably a fight with this person, probably a, a Matt experience with this person. Probably maybe a, I love you to, to this person, but it would be a mixed bag. Not to be too dramatic, but it really makes you think, man, what if I did die right there that, you know, and my daughter, my third daughter hadn't seen her in two months, or one of my daughters I saw the week before and had the best weekend we've ever had, you know, and everything in between makes me really think every now and I do take a quick inventory about where I am with every relationship and, you know, may maybe it forces you to say something that you wouldn't normally say in a good way or appreciate somebody a little bit more. I have determined it's way more fun to be alive than dead. That's my other takeaway, .

Ilyse: (18:37)

And that's it for the current podcast. Stay tuned because next time we'll be speaking with Beverly Jackson, the VP of Brand and product marketing at Zillow,

Speaker 4: (18:48)

Going where our customers are and having a conversation with them in a way that's meaningful to them breaks through and it sort of disrupts the expectations of who we are and what they want from us. The current

Damian: (19:02)

Podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by loving caliber. And the current podcast team includes Chris Brookley and Kat Vessey.

Ilyse: (19:09)

And remember,

Jon: (19:10)

Never lose in, in all the story and all the facts, you know, never lose the ability to add some pixie dust.

Ilyse: (19:16)

I'm Ilyse. And

Damian: (19:17)

I'm Damian and

Ilyse: (19:18)

We'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Francesca’s VP of marketing Traci Graziani shares what she thinks the future of retail will be, Taylor Swift and Beyoncé’s effect on sales, and how a Dolly Parton quote influences her perspective.

Episode Transcript Francesca's, Traci Graziani 

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler: (00:01)

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:02)

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing

Damian Fowler: (00:03)

And welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:10)

This week we sit down with Traci Graziani, the VP of Marketing and Brand Partnerships at Francesca's, the fashion retailer specializing in women's jewelry and apparel.

Damian Fowler: (00:21)

Founded in 1999 in Houston, Francesca has grown into a household name with stores across the U.S. But like many mall-based retailers, the company faced serious challenges during the pandemic when foot traffic stopped.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:34)

But since 2020, the company has turned its fortunes around becoming a successful omnichannel business.

Damian Fowler: (00:41)

Tracy joined the company in 2021 after a more than 15 year career in marketing where she specialized in helping brands identify their purpose, craft their story, and deliver successful campaigns.

Traci Graziani: (00:58)

I grew up in marketing, I grew up in digital advertising and it was a, I was there with a digital marketing firm called Resource for 11 years in my career. They were an independent women owned agency who was talking about being customer obsessed before anyone else. But I started by answering the phones and getting the flowers and just like learning and absorbing. And so I just fell in love from the beginning. I, I worked with a handful of clients over the years. You name a client or an industry, I've probably worked on that account from a communications or a marketing standpoint and ultimately that's what got me brand side. 

Damian Fowler: (01:39)

I love that it's very entrepreneurial view from the very beginning, from the get go as you would say. And you know, one of your sort of specialties as a marketer is that ability to help brands identify their purpose and craft their story. What's your sort of dynamic when you start that whole process?

Traci Graziani: (01:55)

Can I quote Dolly Parton who's behind me here on the wall? 

Damian Fowler: (01:59)

Oh yes. Please.

Ilyse Liffreing:

Yes you can.

Traci Graziani: (01:59)

Okay. She says Find out who you are and do it on purpose. And I believe that as a human and I believe that as a marketer. And so I think that's really what's carried me through and I think that one of my biggest beliefs is that one of the key KPIs that we all need to be looking at and continue to look at is trust. I mean I think it is more prevalent now than ever is trust with our customer in every interaction. Knowing that why and knowing that trust is so critical. Without it you have nothing that becomes your compass. 

Damian Fowler: (02:33)

Yeah. Now, you joined Francesca's in 2021, you know, let me ask you about their story. What is Francesca's story? Yeah,

Traci Graziani: (02:42)

Francesca's actually started as one single boutique in Houston, Texas. And our girl Fran has been around since 1999. I think what's really neat and differentiating about it is that it has always been a place of discovery in this one boutique. It started as a collection of different, you know, products that service a very, you know, woman from 18 to 30 as like the core demographic and someone who's always looking for that like kind of something special. We know that we have an occasion shopper and so we cater to that and so that heritage of the brand from the late nineties all the way through has maintained and that is really the platform that we operate now that has turned into our free to Be You platform, which is this idea that our customer and our brand are always looking to discover new things. I mean, Elise, you love the store you go in, you kind of can't walk outta there without something. Um, but you never know what you're gonna find and I think that that has really been a core differentiator for the brand.

Ilyse Liffreing: (03:44)

Yeah, I mean there's no doubt I fall into that core consumer that 18 to 35, not gonna say my exact age, but yeah, every time I go home, you know, I, I have to go to Francesca's, definitely a fan. It's true, I can't hide that. But can you share any like insights into your target audience? Beyond me of course and how the brand actually like works to like reach and engage them?

Traci Graziani: (04:08)

We recently, within the last year, really did our homework and we surveyed current customers, non-customers and we have really utilized that in a massive way across the organization because I think a differentiator for us too is our ability to move so quickly with our product. And so being able to understand what the customer is looking for and what she's doing in her life, we really look at it as a psychographic more so even than a demographic. We know the sweet spot in terms of the 24 year old, but we know we scaled down our earrings are a great entryway into the brand and we know our gift selection also allows us to scale up in demo. I keep mentioning occasion because it matters, but she's finding small things to be occasion, whether it's you know, a barbecue or a trip or even just going to a friend's house. She's always looking for like that something special and new. And so we really create our marketing and our product to make sure that we're serving that across the year

Ilyse Liffreing: (05:05)

Now. So Francesca's also has a real culture of inclusivity. You guys have the whole Free To Be You campaign. When did that come about and was it under CEO Andrew Clark?

Traci Graziani: (05:16)

Yes, it was, you know, when he joined I, I joined pretty shortly after that and we really were working as a full leadership team on defining, you know, our mission vision values and developing that brand house and what was that greater why and we really did come to that purpose of inspiring Discovery and through that uniting everyone in individuality which comes across in our boutiques in the merchandise assortment that we have, the way that we buy. And I think that that whole idea of Free to Be You, he is definitely a champion for, and I think that has really set us apart in the space. Francesca's also actually means free one the word the name defined. And so there was something core back to that history of who the brand was and where they started that really felt synergistic across everything we're, I think it's 97% of the organization is women and the bulk of that is the field who is our customer and they are just incredible. And so they're another great place in terms of how we define free to be you listening to them, what's happening in their local markets and really utilizing the field and those great associates as a whole nother way to gather customer insights.

Ilyse Liffreing: (06:32)

That comes with like a lot of learnings. As you mentioned, you've recently even launched a tween collection called Frankie. How is that perceived by the Francesca's audience

Traci Graziani: (06:42)

That brand was conceived just a couple years ago and really as an opportunity in a white space in the market? I ironically when Justice sold to Walmart and I actually came from Justice as my previous role and so you know, we had a lot of great leadership on the team that was familiar with that demographic and knowing that that tween demo is shopper is just shy of our Francesca's shopper. So we really saw the opportunity to utilize what we have, right? The customer told us that we needed to shift, that they needed something unique for themselves, that they wanted a little bit more comfortable and cool. And so we have pivoted and it's really exciting. We've just rebranded and launched as Hello Frankie and really excited to create that conversation and that dialogue with the customer.

Ilyse Liffreing: (07:28)

How does Francesca's leverage those customer data and insights to then enhance its campaigns? From what I hear, it's pretty quick turnarounds.

Traci Graziani: (07:38)

First. I think listening to the customer reading and reacting to the product that's working and product that's not too right and testing and learning is a big philosophy. This idea of speed and how quickly can we react? Like a lot of other retailers, we saw the Taylor Swift effect happening very quickly, literally everywhere she was traveling, the weeks leading up to that concert we would see a lift in sales in our boutiques. The same actually happened with Beyonce. And so the team was able to pivot really quickly, pull together what we called the B edit. We did that from pulling together a host of existing items but also chasing into product. And then the other is in just marketing, right? Like our Fran Club that is has been a wealth of data for us, increasing the lifetime value of those customers. They shop more often when they buy, they buy more. That is a new program, newer program for the brand that really has been instrumental in, you know, helping us even understand where we show up in the media and marketing space in terms of those are the best customers and we want more of 'em. 

Damian Fowler: (08:44)

Tell me a little bit more about the Fran Club. When did you create that? And I mean I know a lot of retailers have loyalty programs, but what's the sort of unique spin on that loyalty program with the Fran Club.

Traci Graziani: (08:55)

We knew we needed the program, right? We needed the first party data, we needed to make sure that we were capturing that, you know, we have 460 boutiques across the nation and the ability to capture that information, be able to reward our customers and really increase their visits and their purchase through that communication was key. So that has been tremendous. It's a points program so the more you shop, the more you're rewarded. But there's, you know, other perks like early access being the first to know about things like the B edit . After we had those first learnings in the early fall holiday season, you know, we knew we needed to come back around and expand that program, right? We needed to create more awareness around that program. It was giving us the signs and performing in terms of financial and feedback that was so positive.

Traci Graziani: (09:41)

So we actually launched a campaign via CTV, uh, campaign as the hero kind of tent pole piece. And what we did is the campaign was about joining the Fran club and being whoever you are, right, free to be you is this idea of exclusive but inclusive. And so what we did is we actually had a party, we threw a Fran Club event on a rooftop in one of our best markets in Miami and we invited Fran Club members and creators and so we were rewarding them through in real life, but then we actually filmed it and turned that into the spot that then really showcases and plays back, this is the customer and we, we want you to come like be part of this club. And that campaign was incredibly successful and we actually have another friend club event coming up in Austin in a new store in a few weeks. So,

Ilyse Liffreing: (10:29)

And am I wrong in thinking that that was your first time leveraging CTV?

Traci Graziani: (10:34)

We had done a test um, once before, but not to the scale that we did for the spring.

Ilyse Liffreing: (10:39)

Is that channel also strategic due to the fact that Francesca's has a lot of locations sprinkled across the U.S.?

Traci Graziani: (10:48)

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, driving store traffic is a huge lever for our business. We need to do that and we have to do that in creative ways. And so CTV is certainly one of those more top funnel, but that is fueling both boutique traffic as well as digital.

Damian Fowler: (11:03)

What I'm sort of hearing from you a little bit is, you know, there's a very democratic process here to this sort of circuit as it were of marketing. It's not like you are coming up with these big campaigns. It's like you're using your customer's insights and sharing everything back and it is a sort of virtuous circle or virtuous cycle of kind of marketing that that's interesting.

Traci Graziani: (11:24)

I love that you gathered that from that. Yeah, I think that's where it's going. That's what we're seeing. I mean I think as marketers it's like the hardest job, right? I mean it's always changing. I think if we think we know something , um, we should guess again and stay curious and learn. And I do think that the world today with digital and social allows us to do that. As long as we are going back to who we are and the trust and that we're building that trust with our customer, I, I want them in the conversation. Without the customer we're nothing. And so how we can work with them, pull them into the campaigns, get the feedback, showcase their content, that's where I think we're seeing success and I hope we can build more of that.

Ilyse Liffreing: (12:08)

Speaking of fandom, you also have a pretty unique ambassador program. Could you explain how that works a little bit?

Traci Graziani: (12:15)

Again, back to our best customer, it's a longer term relationship with more micro creators. It's this idea of, I can't claim this quote, but I leverage it a lot, the riches in the niches. And I really believe that, I think that's where fandom starts is in these unique communities. And if you can tap into those audiences and then find more, that's where you win. And that's really what the ambassador program has done for us. It started with about 30 creators and you know, it is more of a white glove where we're really creating direct one-on-one relationships with them, understanding what's going on in their life, if, if they have a bridal shower or whatnot, right? How are we there for them? And then they're creating content with us and for us and then we're sharing that back and celebrating that relationship. We have seen fantastic results. That program and the content that they're creating and posting on their own channels is certainly delivering. And so we are on the move to expand that program in some exciting new ways through some affiliate and different models. So

Ilyse Liffreing: (13:16)

You also lean into your employees for that program? 

Traci Graziani: (13:20)

We do. Like I mentioned, our field is, is our customer. And so the more we listen to them, they're amazing. They're already doing it. They're already loving the brand and they should be rewarded for that. They're some of our best loyal customers as well. So

Damian Fowler: (13:33)

You mentioned at the very beginning the importance of trust around a brand. And one of the issues that comes up in the, in the world of digital media is trust and people sharing their data clearly, you know, you have an audience of people who trust the brand. How do you keep that trust going? How is it maintained every day?

Traci Graziani: (13:51)

That is a constant, constantly working on that takes the entire organization, it takes the great leadership that we have across the board. It takes constantly looking at the customer experience and every touch point. And we still have work to do. I, I think any brand that says that it was done would be would be lying. Um, and the world is changing so quickly and technology is changing so quickly and social is changing, making changes in that and the customer is making changes in that. It's just coming back to that and asking yourself those questions. Where might we be falling down and how can we find solutions that are making it better for our customer? Because if we disappoint them at any touchpoint in the funnel or in the experience, that's where the trust is last. They have so many other options, you know, they can go other places. And so it's that combination of trust with our differentiated product that I think will continue to set us apart.

Damian Fowler: (14:49)

You know, the company faced like many retail companies during the pandemic tough times and even faced chapter 11 proceedings, but since then it's turned its fortunes around under the leadership of CEO Andrew Clark and definitely changed its model to become much more successful omni-channel business

Traci Graziani: (15:08)

I think. Absolutely. You know, there was, there's tough times. There's a real straight strategy at play there and you know, he came in and I think he was in the seat for 10 days and then Covid hit.

Damian Fowler: (15:18)

Yeah, poor guy

Traci Graziani: (15:20)

On top of that . And so it's been a pretty, it's been a pretty incredible story just in terms of, you know, the success over the last couple of years. Our ability to come back to listen to the customer and to really lean omnichannel.

Ilyse Liffreing: (15:35)

Last question. So Francesca's has become more and more omnichannel basically through the years. How do you see the future of retail evolving and what strategies are in place to adapt to these upcoming changes?

Traci Graziani: (15:49)

I think I'm gonna be a broken record for this podcast, . I think the future of retail is the customer, the work of the work of marketer and of a brand is trying to influence people's attention and their behaviors. And I think that that there is no certainty in that. It is not a sure thing. And so you have to always be listening and be curious and be willing to test and learn. And that means being obsessed with the customer and pivoting when they're telling you to pivot. Yeah, for me, well I'll go back to Dolly, you know, be who you are and do it on purpose. We've got a really awesome team here and I think that as long as we listen and move fast and stay curious, then we'll be set up for the future of what retail looks like because we're listening to what the customer has to say.

Ilyse Liffreing: (16:43)

And that's it for The Current. Stay tuned because next time we'll be speaking with John Cook, the global CEO of VMLY&R.

Damian Fowler: (17:08)

The Current is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by loving caliber and the current team includes Chris Brooklier and Kat Vesce.

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:16)

And remember,

Traci Graziani: (17:17)

As marketers, if we think we know something , um, we should guess again and stay curious.

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:23)

I'm Ilyse

Damian Fowler: (17:24)

And I'm Damian

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:25)

And we'll see you next time.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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