The Big Impression

As a 102-year-old brand, White Castle has become a niche part of culture, from the “Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle” movie to people getting married at the restaurant. Jamie Richardson, VP of marketing and public relations, discusses maintaining the White Castle brand as a pop culture icon.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

DAMIAN (00:01):

I'm Damian Fowler.

ILYSE (00:02):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And

DAMIAN (00:04):

Welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

ILYSE (00:10):

This week we sit down with Jamie Richardson, VP of Marketing and Public Relations at White Castle, the 100 and 2-year-old brand that's been part of pop culture and a mainstay in American fast food since it was opened by founder Billy Ingram as a family business in 1921. It now operates around 342 US locations.

DAMIAN (00:32):

From the 2004 film, Harold and Kumar go to White Castle to making headlines for hosting weddings. White Castle manages to maintain its status as a pop culture icon while innovating in new areas like grocery and delivery.

JAMIE RICHARDSON (00:53):

Well, you know, when you work at White Castle, you get calls from all over the world, and one fine day somebody called their 800 line, and I had the opportunity to speak to this person and they said they were from Hollywood, and that there's this film about two likable underdogs who spent an evening of misadventure looking for White Castle. So we said, sure, send us the script. And then I remember taking the script home and taking a look at it, and they forgot to mention it was rated R for raunchy. So that was a little surprising. Um, but, uh, we had some good debate internally. And then I had the opportunity to talk to our CEO and third generation leader, uh, bill Ingram. I had the perfect pitch down. I was really ready to, to sell this big idea. I remember walking into Bill's office and panicking, and the first thing I blurted out was, it has sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Other than that, it's really good for us. And he kind of paused and looked up and said, what in the world are you talking about? And when I told him a little bit more, he, he looked and said, well, as long as it doesn't make fun of our team members, I'm fine with it. So that's how the greatest film that never won an Academy award. Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, got green-lighted thanks to Bill Ingram. That's

ILYSE (01:59):

Great. It must have helped business. What would you say are other unique aspects of White Castle, whether it's like the menu, branding or history and how that contributes also to its ongoing presence in pop culture?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (02:12):

You know, I think for us it's about being relevant and being resonant and having a reverence from where we've been, but also at the same time connecting with consumers today where they are. So, um, certainly at the base of it all, it's about hot, tasty, affordable food. Just like our founder Billy Ingram imagined at the very beginning, he really believed every family should be able to have an affordable evening out. Um, and but beyond that, I think we've been able to be a part of people's, uh, memorable moments and, and that connects us emotionally beyond the physical properties of product and the utilitarian value of food. So keeps it fun and real.

ILYSE (02:44):

And do you guys have like a lot of traditions when it comes to that? It seems, um, it, it seems to play a big role at White Castle, actually. Your burgers have pretty much stayed consistent and then certain traditions have continued on, such as like people get married at White Castle, which is super fun. And then you have a Valentine's Day celebration now, I believe in its 32nd year. Why is it important to continue traditions that consumers know and love? You

JAMIE RICHARDSON (03:13):

Know, I think for White Castle, uh, as a family owned business that's been around for 102 years, our neighbors and friends are the people we serve every day in each of the communities we're in. So for us, uh, you know, around Valentine's Day, white Castle becomes love castle and people make reservations three months in advance to get that special seeding. And I think it's us not taking ourselves too seriously and having some fun with it and recognizing we, we exist to feed the souls of Craver generations everywhere.

DAMIAN (03:39):

Now, Jamie, you mentioned, uh, the word relevant, which obviously is key to any brand, you know, staying relevant and especially in the sector that you are in a competitive restaurant and fast food category. I'm wondering how White Castle has adapted to changing consumer taste and trends, um, whilst it's preserving this 102 year old iconic status.

JAMIE RICHARDSON (03:58):

I, I think for us it's about not being locked into something that we've done just because that's the way we've done it before. It's about meeting people where they are. And the best way to do that is ask good questions, listen intently, and then have that be the foundation for your actions. So, um, we're big believers in consumer research. We're big believers in getting out and talking to the team members and talking with our customers, whether that's on the retail side of our business where we sell, uh, sliders in the grocery store or in our restaurants at the Drive-through or in the dining room. So for us, it's really about listening. And that might sound a little cliche, but we actively lean into it and treat it as a discipline and part of who we are. Um, our vision is feed the souls of Craver generations everywhere. You can't do that if you don't know what people are hungry for. So that's a, a constant focus for us and, and we learn and grow because needs and desires change as time goes on.

DAMIAN (04:50):

You mentioned, uh, adding a grocery business, uh, as well as delivery options. Could you talk a little bit about how the consumer data or leaning into that consumer data played a role in that decision and adding that delivery option for White Castle?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (05:04):

Absolutely. I think we saw that especially as hot and tasty, affordable food became more available through delivery partnerships. It's something we leaned into early. So hey, we're small in the grand scheme of things on the restaurant side, you know, we're a regional player, we have 342 restaurants, so we're not monolithic, we're not global, but in each of our neighborhoods, we want to be a big part of everyone's, uh, opportunity for great food. So when delivery came along, we quickly, uh, were able to forge great partnerships with all the different delivery partners, and we found our customers loved it. It was just one more way to be able to experience the crave, and they told us again and again, um, that that was something they wanted available to 'em. So it's great to be there 24 7, like most of our restaurants are, uh, having another option in terms of how to enjoy the food just seemed to make sense to us and we're really happy we jumped in when we did and we're continuing to grow and build that side of the business.

DAMIAN (05:55):

And, and you mentioned market research. What are the types of consumer demographics that you research, uh, on that crave continuum?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (06:03):

You know, that's interesting. Uh, the Crave continuum is something we created, uh, or discovered is probably a better way to say it. So we created language around it, but it, and in many ways it is taking the traditional demographics and psychographics so many of us lean into as marketers and putting it into the super collider and, and smashing it to bits and starting over. So we've been able to build it really around behaviors. So it isn't purely just the demographics. Um, for us it's about understanding two key things in terms of people's relationship to White Castle, their fandom and how frequently they visit us, so, uh, or purchase in the grocery store. So from that lens, we're able to understand where people are at in the continuum from crave cautious at one end for those souls we haven't connected to yet, but we will someday to crave committed at the other end of the spectrum with crave curious and crave casual in between. So it's been a really rich way for us to explore messaging. It's been a really rich way for us to explore media with all of our different agency partners in terms of how to get the, the right messages to the right people at the right time.

ILYSE (07:06):

Speaking about what you call Cravers and the fandom around that, um, you've created really this whole culture around it. What is White Castle doing to continue to support and market this culture and why is it important for a brand to have such a culture anyway?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (07:23):

Well, I think purpose is what it all comes down to. So, uh, if you know why it exists, it makes it a lot more fun to invest your time and energy and talent, uh, towards creating something that's meant to last that's meaningful. And when, um, we discovered the strong emotional connection so many have with White Castle, we realized that that was gold. That you can, you can spend a lot of money, can come up with a lot of great ideas and things that look good on the chalkboard, but when you have something like that, that's such a great attribute to be able to connect with people in that way. So I think around that idea of craving, we understood there's language that unlocked how so many people felt. And um, as I mentioned earlier, that listening part really played a role in that. So we literally hired a trained psychologist to interview some of our biggest fans and over and over and over again, one word, um, you know, was, was echoed and it was, I get a certain craving for him, I crave 'em late at night, I crave 'em at breakfast. And, um, including one gentleman who told a story about taking white castles on an airplane, and then he named one of our competitors, I won't say their name, and he said, you never see anyone carrying that brand onto an airplane now, do you? right. People love White Castle. Is that right? That told us we were in the right direction.

DAMIAN (08:38):

You know, we talk about meeting people where they are and when it comes to this younger generation, often they're, you know, across social media. How are you kind of, uh, thinking about your campaigns across all these different platforms that young people, you know, are looking at exploring, even gaming? Are any of those channels places where White Castle campaigns are kind of prominent?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (08:56):

I think primarily it's, uh, the notion that we wanna be as distinctive and as individualistic as this next generation of consumers is going to be and already is. And so for us it's just knowing the, the place you're at. So don't try and make one size fits all, so don't try and take something that you posted on Facebook and turn it into a TikTok. Um, you know, do it in a way that meets, uh, the viewer's expectations that provides engagement and candidly entertainment, if you will. Uh, you know, having fun with it. We are just, um, in the midst of a really cool recipe contest where Adam Richmond, the food beast, is serving as one of the judges and, uh, encouraging people to have fun with the food. And it's not a selling message, it's an engagement message. And I think that part of it is really essential in terms of how you make those connections and make, make 'em authentic.

DAMIAN (09:45):

I like that distinction. It's not a selling message, it's an engagement message that, that's interesting. I

ILYSE (09:49):

Also know that White Castle locations and how those are run play a big factor in creating a good business. White Castle founder Billy Ingram said, I believe happy employees make happy customers. Can you talk a little bit about that?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (10:04):

So we are so fortunate as a family owned business to have so many of our 10,000 team members who are really, uh, in it for the long haul. In fact, more than one in four have been with White Castle 10 years or more. And among our general managers for the restaurants, the average tenure is 21 years. Uh, so I think a few people retired last year, so we had a turnover rate of 3%. But it's really, really cool to see that engagement and that focus to the point where for the third year in a row, we've been certified as a great place to work. We're the only fast food and food manufacturing business that's on that list. So it's really an honor and tough demanding circumstances to know we're there with our team members in lockstep to help satisfy the crave any way we can every single day of the year.

DAMIAN (10:46):

I wanna ask you a little bit about the kind of nostalgic feel that White Castle has kind of created and especially for different generations and how you think about the different generations when it comes to your marketing. Yeah,

JAMIE RICHARDSON (10:58):

I think for us it's really about constancy of purpose. So we, we don't run away from the word nostalgia, but rather than it being evocative of times past, we want it to be in present tense. We want it to be something where that emotional reward is just as present today, even if it takes slightly different form than it did earlier. A big part of that is the great value we provide in so many ways. In 1927, we were the first restaurant chain to say, Hey, what if you came in and picked up your food and took it home? So we were the first restaurant that we've ever found that was offering carryout, and we started doing that by selling 'em by the sack. So you could get each individual hamburger in its own little carton and a sack of 10 Togo. And later on that led to the Crave Case and then the Crave Crate, and then, uh, for a brief time the Crave Palette. But you know, it took us a little longer to make 7,000 Burgers than we thought. So that's no longer on the menu, but if you, if you call us, we'll take good care of you.

DAMIAN (11:52):

But you've also now launched a campaign called Micro Castle that promotes the idea that anyone with a microwave can have their White Castle at home thanks to the burgers in grocery stores. Could you talk a little bit how that came to be the strategy behind promoting buying sliders at grocery stores over the physical retail locations?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (12:10):

Absolutely. So it's so much fun because it's another great story about listening. So our third generation leader, uh, and CEO, bill Ingram visited every restaurant every year. And in one of his visits in a New York Castle, he saw a person like literally leaving with four acts of 10. So he just wandered over and said hello and said, oh, are you off to a party? Are you, he goes, oh, no, no, no, no, I put these in my freezer. And then Bill leaned in, so what do you do with them in your freezer? He said, oh, I've got a new appliance that I use to reheat 'em. It's called the Microwave Oven . And, uh, and so Bill thought, Hmm, you know, people are microwaving our sliders. Maybe we could sell 'em through the grocery store. And it's a fun story because I won't mention their names, but he approached three well-known global manufacturers and said, Hey, would you like to, we'll license this to you? And they all kinda laughed at him and said, no one will ever buy fast food from a grocery store. So thankfully he wasn't discouraged, but, but, uh, we did it ourselves. And so today we have three dedicated frozen food plants and that, uh, side of our business, our CPG business is 30% of our revenue, a bigger percent of our profit, and it's growing by leaps and bounds. We just, uh, doubled the size of our plant and vandalia to keep up and it's really fun that people can enjoy that flavor and taste. That's

ILYSE (13:20):

Awesome. With all that growth though, there's always some challenges going on, especially in the fast food business. What would you say are some of the, the main challenges that you run into?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (13:31):

I think there's some challenges that are universal. Um, you know, these days more than ever, everyone's trying to work through this moment in time. It's been a crazy four years as we all know, and I think there's still some kind of trying to understanding what's a new normal look like. Um, we've gone beyond supply shortages that seems to have sorted itself out. Labor shortage today isn't as bad as it was a year ago. Um, so many of us on the restaurant hospitality side of things face the same challenges on the CPG side of things. Uh, food costs and inflation are real and trying to maintain that value for consumers who are shopping is real for us. We have distinctive challenges because it's a, a strengthen and an opportunity and the strength is we're small and family owned. The opportunity is we compete against some of the world's biggest brands and being able to stay relevant means we can't spend as much money. We have to think more creatively and try new things and, and connect that way

ILYSE (14:31):

On that. Are there any emerging, like channels you're experimenting in or campaigns that you're trying out for the first time?

JAMIE RICHARDSON (14:38):

I think for us, um, finding new ways to connect with people and manage expectations is something that's so important because we think expectations are gonna continue to look for even faster service, even greater quality and even more accessibility. So our delivery partnerships are great. Our mobile app has continued to grow and we're involved in a major effort right now to revamp and, and relaunch our, our mobile app because we know, um, staying current there is essential to success. So, um, and then when it comes to campaign, we're constantly evolving and modifying and, uh, making the message even more informed and better connected. So with the Crave Continuum as the platform, um, that's something we're leaning into to talk to those different audiences in in ways that matter. We did a really fun local campaign that was what we call brand unified for our restaurants and our, our CPG business where, uh, roller skating, uh, is the place to be, you know, roller skating's back just like vinyl has been. And, uh, so we, we partnered with some, some skating centers and um, you know, fed a lot of people, a ton of sliders, but also had some fun social content that came out of that as well. So I think for us it's always trying new things and, and being open to the learning we get as we go.

DAMIAN (15:52):

You mentioned roller skating, which is interesting, which brings to mind, you know, other sports. I'm wondering what White Castle's relationship is to sports, uh, and live sports. Well,

JAMIE RICHARDSON (16:02):

We are a group of people who have a Super Bowl ambitions, but, uh, you know, much smaller budget. So we are so fortunate to have two great sports partnerships. Uh, one is with USA luge and so, uh, white Castle's the official sponsor of their search for, for luge athletes. Um, the athletes in luge are called sliders, so there's a nice fit there and we've been partners for six years now. Yeah, it's really fun. And uh, you know, we cheer on team USA every four years as they go off to the Olympics, but that's something we get to do fun along the way that encourages youth participation and helps them find the future Olympians as they go around the country. Um, and then just recently we announced a really fun partnership with Major League Pickleball and our local Columbus, Ohio team, which used to be called the Columbus Pickleball Club, has changed its name. They are now the Columbus Sliders and we are cheering them onto victory as they go. So, um, but pickleball is on the rise, and so we find that's a fun, affordable way for us to connect. And I'll tell you that the kids in America are discovering pickleball and it's gonna be big. So we try to catch a rising star whenever we can. And both those opportunities have been huge and a lot of fun for us.

DAMIAN (17:17):

And that's it for the current podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned.

ILYSE (17:21):

The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by love and caliber. The current team includes Chris Brooklier and Kat Vesce.

DAMIAN (17:31):

And remember, we

JAMIE RICHARDSON (17:32):

Don't run away from the word nostalgia, but rather than it being evocative of times past, we want it to be in present tense. We want it to be something where that emotional reward is just as present today, even if it takes slightly different form than it did earlier. A big part of that is the

DAMIAN (17:48):

Great value we provide. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also tune into our other podcast, the current report, our weekly roundup of what's making news in digital media. I'm Damian.

ILYSE (18:01):

I'm Ilyse.

DAMIAN (18:01):

And we'll see you next time.

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Weinstein shares why data and technology are crucial to Hilton’s customers’ experience, the creative philosophy for the hotel’s recent campaign with Paris Hilton, and marketing against home-sharing companies.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian: (00:01)

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse: (00:02)

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And

Damian: (00:03)

Welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

Ilyse: (00:10)

This week we're delighted to talk with Mark Weinstein, the Chief Marketing Officer at Hilton.

Damian: (00:16)

Mark joined Hilton more than 13 years ago rising to become the CMO in 2020, where he now leads global marketing for the Hilton portfolio of over 7,300 hotels across 22 brands in 123 countries and territories

Ilyse: (00:32)

As travel surged. After all that pent up Wonderlust created during the pandemic, the hotel brand unveiled its biggest marketing push in six years. The campaign focuses on the quality of the travel experience with Hilton Brands. So Mark Hilton, of course, has its own loyalty program, the free Hilton Honors. How many Hilton guests currently take part in this program? What does it offer in terms of perks?

Mark: (01:02)

We have 165 million Hilton Honor members and growing. We're the fastest growing loyalty program in travel. And what we love about Hilton Honors, it allows us to get to know our guests to personalize the experience for them. And it also connects all 22 brands. 'cause what's interesting about our portfolio is each brand serves a travel need, budget and occasion. And you may transverse the brands for your different needs. And so Hilton Honors is that connective tissue, whether you're an infrequent traveler and Hilton Honors is a way to give you the best value for booking through hilton.com directly. So we get to know who you are, things like free wifi and points towards that free stay, a more elite member who can earn additional benefits like automated upgrades that we're delivering so you have even better stay or even that ability to dream for that once in a lifetime experience with our partners at McLaren, uh, F one Racing or Live Nation. Uh, and which you can of course further accelerate with things like our credit cards along the journey. So there's something for everyone, uh, along the Hilton Honors program. And of course, as you said, it's free to join, so you'd be crazy not to get that additional value.

Ilyse: (01:56)

Now how would you say like technology such as like your digital platforms and mobile app also play a role basically in enhancing the guest experience in order to foster like that loyalty and that wonderlust?

Mark: (02:09)

Yeah. The interesting thing about our technology, I would say it, it focuses in two different ways. All in service of that wonderlust. In some ways it's taking the friction outta travel so you can focus on doing what you're there to do, which is explore and find a great stay experience. So some of our innovations around digital key and the ability to choose your room in the app before you even get there, you know exactly what room you're gonna have. The ability to book confirm connecting rooms for parents. There's nothing more stressful than wondering if you're gonna get those rooms together. We actually are able to confirm it at time of booking. The ability to personalize the stay and choose things you want, the ability to message with the front desk, those are all friction removing items of the travel journey. They take away that interaction at the front desk where it's highly transactional.

Mark: (02:48)

That frees you up to then have a human conversation. Where do the locals like to eat? Where's the best place to get that Instagrammable rooftop bar shot, you know, as the sun's coming down. So that's one aspect of our technology is making the guest experience better, uh, and easier. On the other hand, putting the wonderlust back in. So you look at our social media abilities to connect with customers with the things they want to hear most about, to produce content and serve it up, whether it's on the interim TV with our connected room, digital TVs through the app itself or on our websites. The ability to let you personalize choices on Hilton Honors. What benefits you most wanna earn on that trip, or the ability to serve up what interesting experiences you might wanna use your honors points for. And so that Wonder Lust is enabled by both the simplifying the basics and really making it straightforward so we're always reliable and friendly to our guests. And then it also supercharging that, that sort of wonder lust that makes you wanna explore the planet.

Ilyse: (03:37)

How does like data then come into play from your loyalty program to tailor your marketing efforts and create those very unique experiences?

Mark: (03:46)

Data plays a critical role in everything we do for our customers. Whether that is for our less frequent travelers, trying to better get them the right content on initial stay. Like lots of people travel very infrequently and when they do, it's the trip of a lifetime. So we wanna make sure we use contextual clues from the data, where they came from, what they're engaging with to serve up the right hotel, the right products, the right experiences for that trip. Our Hilton honors members, our best customers who we know extremely well, we can be even more personalized. We can serve up the dream destinations they most want to go to. When you're looking at our website, you're seeing the kind of rooms you typically book, you know, 'cause we know you so well giving you add-on abilities. Things that we know you always add onto your trip are even easier at the fingertips.

Mark: (04:24)

So that, that's one aspect of it. Second aspect of it is product innovation. You know, the insights of our customers are telling us where we need to go next. They help us pick the next destinations. You know, we're opening about a hotel a day, they help us build new brands, places where we know our customers are looking for a great product, but maybe we don't have a category. And it becomes our design target, our muse for designing a new brand where we create partnerships, the products that we put in our hotels, the partners we affiliate with to build out that journey. So it's, it's both myopically used to, to give you a personalized experience in the moment itself, but also helping us innovate and build the pipeline of where we go next with who we go next and how we build out the brands.

Damian: (05:00)

Let's talk a bit about the actual marketing campaigns that you've launched. I know that last year you launched the biggest marketing push in six years. Um, it's the Hilton for the Stay platform. The tagline is, it matters where you stay. And that was a campaign, uh, created by TBWA Jet Day and that features Paris Hilton for the very first time, who's seen giving travel tips. Could you talk a little bit about that campaign and why you launched this big campaign last year? Coming

Mark: (05:26)

Outta the pandemic, it would be really easy to get into that sea of sameness, trpi that was out there. You had this desire to reconnect and of course that was an important message, but every company in travel was gonna say the same thing, is saying the same thing and has done so for, you know, decades that empty, you can picture it, that empty beach with a nobody on the beach chair and the clear blue ocean. You can't tell if it's a credit card, a hotel company, an airline, a travel agency, or anything in between. So we knew there was kinda the sea of sameness. There was a tendency to fall in that trope of re connectivity coming outta the pandemic. So we used that moment, uh, during the pandemic to both double down on our customer relationships, donate a million rooms to frontline medical responders, do all the things you do in that moment, but really look ahead to what the future would be.

Mark: (06:04)

And what we realized was we had never had a platform to tell our story consistently. And in a sea of sameness of this kind of eat, pray, love wonderlust of travel and people on goji berries and surfboards, that's not my travel experience most of the time. Why were we glorifying the destination but not the thing we provide in this travel experience? The stay itself. And we thought back to our founder, uh, Conrad Hilton over a hundred years ago said it was our job to fill the earth with the light and warmth, the hospitality. So we had this really unique purpose in the world, very different than everyone else, and yet a sea of sameness marketing, uh, environment. And what we realized was we were going from campaign to campaign, getting sick of it before anybody else even saw it, before it even wore in. We needed a platform, we needed our version of what we're gonna stand for.

Mark: (06:45)

And so as we looked with TBWA, the answer was there all along. It's the stay. It doesn't matter how you travel, it doesn't matter how you live your life. When you come to our hotel and you cross that transom, it just feels different when it's at Hilton and at the heart of every great trip is a great stay. And so the stay became that, that that glue. We then look for stories you could tell on top of it. Uh, it matters where you stay as our first campaign to tell that story. Bringing other influencers and creators in to help tell their authentic story. And who more authentic than the great-granddaughter of the founder of our company, Paris Hilton, who has lived her life literally in our hotels, you know, born and raised in in many of our hotels, traveled the world. So we try to find a lot of different ways in to tell that story all connected back to these 22 brands, how they're all part of Hilton and how ultimately were for this day,

Damian: (07:27)

How significant was it? Was the fact that you launched this across many different channels?

Mark: (07:32)

I mean, fir look, first of all, we wanna be where our customers are. I mean that, that's ultimately drives this conversation. And, and you know, just using linear as an example, you know, your go-to oftentimes as a classically trained marketer is to to be on tv. And of course we need to be there. There's some reach and frequency in the saliency that comes with that. But the reality is increasingly our customers are engaging with brands differently. Uh, and whether that's on social media or their favorite creators, our ability to give up control a bit, which is hard as a brand owner, right? As as a brand leader. And you realize very quickly we actually don't own the brand that customers do. Their perception becomes reality. Their reality becomes the brand. So we better meet them where they are. Podcasting and audio is a huge trend coming particularly accelerated outta the pandemic.

Mark: (08:09)

Uh, social media obviously has been, you know, a rocket ship. Uh, your ability to even functionally serve up search results. SEO is being generated by your ability to be indexable on, you know, YouTube and, and TikTok and other places. So it's, it's a no brainer to be with the customers are. And and what's amazing to me about marketing this great discipline we all get to do is that the fundamentals are the same, right? We're still telling great stories like we're doing for hundreds of years that is just so authentically human, but how we get to do it is rapidly changing it faster than any time in history. And so that's why we went omnichannel during

Damian: (08:40)

The pandemic of, of course people stopped traveling, they had to, and we saw a big surge of travel after that based on that wonderlust, that desire to get out of the house. According to the US Travel Association, total travel spending this year is still going up 4% over last year, year over year. Is that your perception? Is that your understanding travel demand is still very strong?

Mark: (09:01)

Yeah, look, coming, coming outta the crisis, I mean every single year of the last three years has been stronger than the previous. Uh, the reality is there's so much pent up demand and one or lost. I, I think there were some mechanic things like people had record levels of savings. But more importantly we had this golden age of travel going into the pandemic, you know, record levels of middle class all across the world, getting to experience travel for the first time that pause, but it didn't break during the pandemic. There was a very explainable reason, the pandemic to stop doing that. But the demand was still there. The desire was still there. And then it got accelerated when people realized how fragile freedom is, right? That at the end of the day, at any given time, your bucket list comes to a screeching halt. So why is it a bucket list?

Mark: (09:37)

Why is it not a tomorrow list? Why is it not a today list? Let's go out and do it. And then you started to see flexibility of working, right? This idea that I had to be on this calendar schedule where my kids had to get to back to school at a certain time or I needed back in the office, that dynamic changed as well. And so you have record amount of demand, you had a very acute moment where we all realized, my goodness, the thing I love to do could go away at any time. And then life became more flexible. It has led to record levels of travel all across the world. And our hotels are certainly seeing record levels of customers engaging with us.

Ilyse: (10:07)

So Hilton has a diverse portfolio, brands 22 to be precise. How does the marketing strategy then differ across these brands to cater to those like various travel segments?

Mark: (10:19)

It's a great question. Look, each brand has a design target, a ause that we use to design that and, and s sort an archetype that we're really focusing on. We build out that prototype of what it's gonna look like, feel like what brands are gonna appear in the hotel itself, what's the color palette, the look and feel, the logo, all those things that you'd expect us to do. And each brand has to win its category, right? All of 'em have, you know, great competitors that, that are offering options the same price point. So we gotta be differentiated. What's important for us though is that by Hilton or the name Hilton in the brand, which is in all 22 brands, is not a holding company. We're not a, we're not a sort of CPG company that just happens to own these brands and lets 'em all pure play, compete.

Mark: (10:55)

They all have a purposeful role in the journey. And so you may be at a Hilton resort, you know, having a great trip in Aruba and then suddenly you're at your kid's soccer game or you know, football match at a Hampton Inn somewhere in the world or you know, that you need to be in and then a Walter for story for your honeymoon. So you're transversing those brands by Hilton has to mean something by Hilton has to also be the connective tissue. And so it's this fun challenging balance of having 22 brands each with their own personality that commands premiums in their category, while also reminding customers that it matters that these are by Hilton and that you'll get the benefits of Hilton Honors and all the things we innovate and drive. Uh, along the journey.

Ilyse: (11:30)

Hilton recently conducted research into how different generations travel. What were like, the major takeaways from the research, for instance is like one generation travel more than the other.

Mark: (11:41)

You know, some trends you see are about where you are in your lifecycle, right? Obviously the older you get the the more you typically have more disposable income and time just definitionally. When you're younger, you're often in the early stage of your career, maybe your family's younger. So there, there's those dynamics. But we do look at each generation to see what's pervasive and what's what's there. The first was the focus on wellness. People are looking particularly for restorative sleep. Uh, when you looked at I think the lowest end of the, of the spectrum, you know, 55% of Gen Z were saying that's the primary purpose of their trip. All they up to 70% of, uh, boomers and and Gen X were saying the primary purpose of the trip was restorative sleep, right? So we take that responsibility very, very seriously that you need to be rested and relaxed when you come to our hotel.

Mark: (12:20)

Second trend we saw was a seamless digital experience, right? This ability to dream shop book, experience the entire, stay digitally and personalize that journey for you. And so as you look at our innovation agenda, whether that's putting your mind at ease when you book that, you've got a confirmed connecting room, whether that's knowing you can message the front desk, you know, how many times, uh, I know for me I'm in the room and I don't really wanna go back to the front desk. I don't really wanna call and bother them, but I could use more towels or I could use, uh, a beverage after the, the bars maybe close for the night to build a message to the front desk and have 'em respond back. That's pretty powerful. So how do we digitally engage with our customers all generations? You know, it may start with younger travelers, but I'm telling you that the boomers are just the same in terms of wanting the ease and access of a seamless digital booking experience and engaging experience.

Mark: (13:01)

The third is, uh, local experiences. So people go somewhere to do something typically. And so they want our hotels to help 'em connect with the neighborhoods. Where's the offbeat path? Yes, you'll see the big museum or the big, you know, sculpture in town or whatever it may be. But tell me what locals do. Where do they eat? Where do I go around here? And maybe some of that's in the hotel. Maybe we have a great, you know, Michelin star restaurant in the hotel and we can get you a reservation that you can otherwise have. So a third trend we saw was connecting with the local experience and not wanting a cookie cutter trip. Even. You know, you want a reliable hotel. And the last, and I mentioned this earlier, the dynamic of business travel has changed wildly. You know, as I think about my career and a lot of our consumers say the same thing, it was an interruption in your life.

Mark: (13:41)

It was, you know, I had my life at home and then I go do business travel and that's gonna stop my momentum at home. The flexibility we now all have to be virtual for an extra week. It allows us to extend a business trip into a personal trip. The ability to have your kids join you on the weekend. Suddenly now you can use that momentum of a business trip to be the catalyst for bringing your whole family along. 'cause the kids can miss a day of school or take a zoom class instead of having to be back in class. And so that journey has been blended. And so when we look at the trends across all generations, that ability to make it digitally and seamless for them is really important. The ability to be locally connected, that ability to ultimately blend the work in business, travel, uh, business and and leisure at the very top of it, the whole thing. Make sure that when you leave that hotel, you feel rested and restored. Whether that's mind, body or soul.

Damian: (14:22)

And in terms of your marketing calendar, your marketing cadence, you talk about all these many different streams you're looking at, how do you think about the rollout of campaigns?

Mark: (14:31)

A lot of markets have a natural pacing to them. There are, you know, there's golden week in China twice a year, right there, there's things that you lean into because that is a natural catalyst. We, despite all the flexibility I talked about earlier, we still in the US have big summer breaks. That's a big time to send people, you know, on holiday. But also watching customer cues, right? We were able to, a lot of the, the channels we talked about earlier are pool channels, not push channels. So as customers are engaging on video, on demand and they're watching programming about travel destinations or food destinations, let's, let's plug into that moment. Let's activate and trigger. We're watching social media all the time for moments to intercept. You know, we've got examples where there was a home sharing customer whose dad thought they booked a house for four.

Mark: (15:08)

It was a shed that was big enough for one person. They had two dogs and four kids. And it was crazy. We texted them and said, you know, we message 'em on Twitter and TikTok and got ahold of 'em and said, come to our hotel. Uh, we had one the other day who texted her at home sharing host and said, uh, we're at a toilet paper. Where do I find more? And they said, the supermarket. And we said, well that's crazy. Our hotel has come to our hotel, right? So you find these little human moments along the way. And so it takes the pressure outta marketing to some degree 'cause the customers are telling you when they want to hear about you. And we've got ready to go stories. The last example I would give is cultural tent poles. So we've got a long standing partnership with the Grammys.

Mark: (15:43)

Uh, we have a long history music. Uh, John Lennon wrote, imagine in the New York Hilton on a piece of stationary, had the bed in for peace at the Hilton in Amsterdam. Elvis did residencies. Freddie Mercury wrote a crazy little thing called Love in the Bathtub at the Hilton Frankert. Yeah. And so we belong in music, right? So Grammys becomes a big tent pole to tell our story. Formula one with McLaren and Lando Norris, uh, on a McLaren F one racing team. The big moment in the Vegas race will tell that story. So there, there are these moments where you can lean into culture, where the stay is really at the heart of what's possible and that just becomes an authentic way to connect with our customers.

Damian: (16:14)

I wanna ask you about sustainability and eco-conscious travel, which should become increasingly important. Can you talk about how Hilton incorporates those concepts and those initiatives into its marketing efforts to resonate with environmentally conscious travelers? This

Mark: (16:27)

Is very top of mind. We have a huge responsibility. We have over a million and you know, almost a million and a half rooms across the world. And the decisions we make can make or break products for distribution. And so one of the things we did on the product side is we moved to bulk amenities. This idea that you're not gonna have those tiny little bottles that get thrown out every stay. We've got refillable bottles that are safe and secure and sealed and everything else, but the real driver was environmental impact, right? We, we are big enough that our ability to use reusable bottles for water, the ability to use refillable bottles in the, in the bath amenities, that has a huge impact on our supply chain. And so first and foremost is that second we have the ability for companies that are keeping track of their impact.

Mark: (17:02)

Or, you know, even for conscious consumers, we're tracking all the energy uses at our hotels and we're giving recommendations to the hotels how to save energy based on consumer behaviors. We're able to turn down the thermostats when the guests leave the room. We're able to do the things that actually make a difference. On the marketing side, it, it's kind of a funny scenario. And that customers care more than ever, as as they should. They'll tell you in a focus group, they'll pay a premium or they want to hear about they, they really don't. They, they want to have a great trip, but they wanna know underneath that great trip, you're doing the right thing. And so we're not necessarily gonna always put it front and center and say, this is an eco-conscious trip, but we better have the proof points for you that you'll know that the trip you're having that not paying a premium, but paying what you already pay includes Hilton's commitment to doing that.

Mark: (17:41)

So that's really important. And on the marketing side, look, we have to look at sustainable sourcing of things. We have to look at who our supply chain is with what are we buying and who are we buying it from. We built these rooms, these hotel rooms on golf courses, uh, for, you know, big golf activations and they're fun and they're great for three days. We've donated a couple of those to local schools to use as play facilities, right? So are you thinking through the entire journey and then the tricky part to your question coming back to that is just how much do customers really want to hear that story versus just know intuitively and instinctively that your brand stands for it and it's committed and the dollars they're spending are being reinvested in their communities and being reinvested for the environmental impact.

Ilyse: (18:17)

What emerging trends or channels do you see as having the most significant impact on Hilton's marketing strategy in 2024?

Mark: (18:26)

I look back to where we are today versus when I studied marketing, uh, you know, a number of years ago in school, too many years ago in school. And, you know, the channels we're using most today didn't even exist. Literally did not exist. Social media was not even really a thing. Uh, and suddenly here it is our number one channel for a number of ways to connect with customers. And so we will rejoice in the fact that marketing is job is always and will continue to be great storytelling. And that's not going anywhere. That is the heart of what we do. What will change and continue to accelerate for us is how we do that more on social, right? More on streaming and video on demand. You know, as you start to pivot from, I think this year was the first year that consumers officially watch more video not on linear TV than than on linear tv.

Mark: (19:04)

That trend will continue and so we'll need to meet them where they are on streaming and video on demand and YouTube and other platforms. You'll see us show up in TikTok and Instagram and show up on the platforms where we can tell authentic, credible stories. I think the more fun part for us is giving away the keys to the castle a bit, right? So we're gonna be doing more with creators and letting them tell their authentic story about a Hilton's day. And while you might not always have all the brand controls you have, the authenticity outweighs the impact of losing a little bit of your ability to control for every sentence and every, you know, color that they use in in their work. And then lastly, we'll look for ways to activate, um, at big cultural tent pole moments, showing up in an activational way with experiential marketing to let customers truly experience what our brand stands for in the moments that matter most to them, reminding them that it matters where you stay and that Hilton is for this day.

Damian: (19:51)

That's it for this edition of the current podcast. We'll be back next week. So stay tuned.

Ilyse: (19:56)

The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by love and caliber. The current team includes Chris Leyer and Cat fei.

Damian: (20:05)

And remember, you

Mark: (20:07)

Realize very quickly we actually don't own the brand that customers do. Their perception becomes reality. Their reality becomes the brand. So we better meet them where they are.

Damian: (20:15)

I'm Damien and

Ilyse: (20:16)

I'm Aise

Damian: (20:17)

And we'll see you next time.

Dive into more insights and inspiration from leaders in ad tech: https://www.thecurrent.com/

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The chief marketing officer of the free ad-supported television (FAST) platform breaks down the maturation of the free-streaming space, Tubi going for an entire brand refresh, and growing the brand past its “teenage-acne phase.”

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler: (00:01)

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:02)

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. 

Damian Fowler: (00:03)

And welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:10)

This week we sit down to talk with Nicole Parlapiano, the chief marketing officer of Tubi.

Damian Fowler: (00:16)

Nicole became the CMO in 2022, having honed her marketing experience at a number of high profile companies, including VaynerMedia, WeWork and Tinder. In 2023, she was named one of ad age's leading Women of the Year.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:31)

Tubi had a breakout year in 2023, it surpassed 74 million monthly active users. 10 million of those came between February and September when the brand had its viral Super Bowl campaign.

Nicole Parlapiano: (00:47)

I mean it was a big moment. I think it's one of those lightning in a bottle I think when it really hit for me is when I saw a friend of mine who has kids in college sent me a TikTok and they were imitating the kids what it was like when the Tubi commercial came on. And I thought like, what a privilege and what an amazing impact that people are creating reaction videos because of what we did. And you know, if it's with the college kids on TikTok, then it's gonna go. It really showed how much like impact we had in that moment and for you know, a more of a challenger streaming brand. It was a big moment for the company and for the brand.

Damian Fowler: (01:28)

It certainly raises the bar right for, for next Super Bowl. For you , do you, are you, are you thinking oh we've gotta build on this and and do something even more?

Nicole Parlapiano: (01:37)

I literally basked in it for three days and then I was like Ooh, like this is definitely a hard thing to follow. And I think you can't put pressure on things like that. We are just obsessed with our viewers and obsessed with like surprising them. I think that happens in small ways every day on social. We're very accessible to our fans and our viewers. We respond to everybody. So really scaling that mass intimacy, you know, sending our biggest fans Tubi care packages and special things that they like. The bigger campaigns we've done since then are really similarly just looking at the moment we're in, really being considerate about who the audience is, who is the target audience and like how can we break through creatively in that moment on a small scale, on a big scale. Instead of letting the content lead us, we really let the viewer and the audience lead where we go. That takes the pressure off of what, what are we doing? What do we need to do? They tell us what we need to do if we're listening

Damian Fowler: (02:39)

So are your marketing campaigns sort of reacting to Yes. What your viewers are watching? Yes. Is that, could you talk a little bit about how you stay like in the moment stay relevant?

Nicole Parlapiano: (02:48)

Listen, like for things like Super Bowl you have to plan many months ahead, but we actually had a very condensed time. So even on our bigger campaigns we turned things within four months pretty quick. When we do Super Bowl in the future, I think that part of the magic is cutting it really close. I mean culture's just moving so fast at this point that if you make something 10 months out, like is it still gonna hit the right way? Like things are moving too fast. I wouldn't say it's completely reactionary, but I do over-Index on giving my team enough time to pay attention and listen versus follow a marketing calendar. I think if we're following a marketing calendar and we're so focused on the calendar dictating our lives, you're going to miss the things that are going on in culture and then you don't have the bandwidth to move when something happens. That's

Damian Fowler: (03:36)

Such invaluable insight.

Ilyse Liffreing: (03:38)

You know, speaking of trends, especially in the streaming space, Tubi is becoming somewhat of like a poster child for Fast channels or rather free ad supported TV platforms, especially after breaking into Nielsen's platform rankings in March. What do you think is driving the next evolution of growth for Fast?

Nicole Parlapiano: (03:56)

I think people are starting to get it with Fast. Probably two years ago when Fast there was a little bit of my expectation is that it's like an SVOD think now people are starting to realize that Fast just really plays a different role in your life and that it is more of a place to come when you're not sure what you wanna watch and you're looking to watch based on a mood or an occasion or a feeling. The growth in viewership is coming from just better consumer understanding of the role that fast plays and it's not necessarily like a replacement to SVOD, it's extremely complimentary. The large collection of titles we have really leans into a trend you’re seeing in media where there's just overall fragmentation. There's different pockets of the internet of people that are passionate about completely obscure things. And so us having a huge content library allows them to find those things and find them with depth.

Nicole Parlapiano: (04:53)

We can just tailor to many taste moods and communities that aren't necessarily reflected in mainstream Hollywood at scale. So not just a couple of titles that cater to that audience. We have 50 to a hundred. The second thing that's happening coming out of like just the golden era of TV and streaming and all this content that just came at everyone, it's a lot and there's a lot going on in the world globally and I think there's a lot of mental stress and there is just a trend that you see of people wanting to go back to watch TV from a different time. The nostalgia viewing is hitting an an important time in society right now. Ultimately over time I think we're gonna see a behavioral shift where people know to come to apps like to be first if they don't know what they wanna watch, we're your everyday constant as you cycle in and out of whatever subscription service you're on based on whatever big title they have.

Ilyse Liffreing: (05:49)

You noted to adage that we need to get back to a place of building brands. What are some of the ways you are continuing to build and articulate Tubi’s brand identity in 2024?

Nicole Parlapiano: (06:02)

I mean brands are fluid things. I think as a brand at Tubi, we are probably a teenager with like some acne. Like we're figuring out who we are, we don't know who we are yet, you know, we haven't taken the brand that we've shown the last year and really visually and verbally landed that across our entire product and customer and viewer experience. So we are looking at an entire brand refresh. It'll just more reflect I, I would say the exciting inviting and mischievous side of Tubi just to drive a little bit more consistency there across our surfaces. And then instead of campaigns and you know, the everyday social, I do think a lot about something I'll call brand acts, the behavioral moments that reinforce who we are that aren't in the format of a campaign. So I wanna do more of that next year. And I think the one thing I am really excited about is most of my job is like thinking about Tubi every day, but because we're ad supported, I love the breaks that I get to think about problems for our advertiser partners and how their brand can better show up and come to life within the Tubi platform.

Nicole Parlapiano: (07:12)

Integrating into different shows we might have or experiences.

Damian Fowler: (07:16)

I liked your word mischievous because it seems to characterize a lot of the work. Yeah. And speaking of that, you know you launched a new tagline, find Your Rabbit Hole, and that was in tandem with a cleverly associated rabbit AI product. I'm doing air quotes, . Could you walk us through this campaign, you know, and how you thread the needle between brand building and that product technology?

Nicole Parlapiano: (07:38)

I think with the product team, I mean we are just thick as thieves and we are constantly both thinking about what is a true about the viewer experience on Tubi and B, what else can we do to solve their problems? And so we had already briefed the campaign and then when we were going through an exercise together on how we would use OpenAI technology, the first thing we thought about was like helping people find these specific rabbit holes right now. Like the only algorithmic ways that other streamers are telling you what to watch is based on past behavior, but you don't really have a great way to search for something in a categorical semantic search way. So the campaign was sort of going and then when we landed that this was a problem we were gonna solve, I'm like wow, these beautifully go together because you can actually, through the rabbit AI search, you can find rom-coms with hot lifeguards in two seconds. Or you know, shows about, you know, drug cartels on the pickup. You can dictate that behavior with rabbit ai. So when we were launching, you always kind of run into that, well we need to launch the campaign by this time. And they're like, the feature's gonna be available at this time. And you know, sometimes you're not able to make those two things happen all at once all in the same day, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't do them. So we launched the campaign and then a few weeks later Rabbit AIGA AI came out.

Damian Fowler: (09:03)

I mean I read recently some data about the amount of time people spend searching shows to watch Ugh a lot. You know, like

Nicole Parlapiano: (09:10)

It's insane.

Ilyse Liffreing: (09:11)

I know. Firsthand .

Nicole Parlapiano: (09:12)

Yeah, right. And how many give up

Damian Fowler: (09:14)

And you, yeah, so this idea that you can actually hone in on exactly what you want, there's a sort of almost like a feeling. I mean I'm often look for British crime dramas for instance. Yeah. Or a period one like an Agatha Christie. Yeah. But it's very hard to do that in, you know, with a lot of search engines they don't always deliver those results. 

Nicole Parlapiano: (09:31)

No. And the categories are like you like reality tv. I think I can speak for all reality TV viewers. We are not one and the same. Like we are different cult fandoms and we like different things and I don't think anyone's really tapped into, you're just, we're kind of like blanket lump, summing all of these genres. And I think the data that we're getting from the search queries is very interesting because it uncovers some of these sub genres that we maybe wouldn't have thought to classify.

Damian Fowler: (09:57)

Speaking of innovation is anything that's really caught your eye in the present moment.

Nicole Parlapiano: (10:03)

So I can say one that's caught my wallet, which is all the social shopping products and um, I am currently waiting for my era style Josh Allen t-shirt to come from TikTok shop because they must have known that I'm a Buffalo Bes fan and a Taylor fan and they knew not to put Travis Kelce in front of me. They knew to put Josh Allen in front of me and I clicked to buy so fast. It was scary. Lo-fi creative is always on my mind and I don't mean just UGC creative, I think what you see with the younger generation in Gen Z, their creative tastes are so wildly different. I don't know if you guys follow the drumstick account on TikTok like the ice cream cone, but

Ilyse Liffreing: (10:46)

No, but I want to now

Nicole Parlapiano: (10:48)

You have to. Whoever's running this account is amazing. It's totally that generation's creative style. They've integrated the product but in a very funny way. So I watch that and I'm paying very close attention to where that's going because not in the near term but in the long term traditional ads as we know them will become less relevant and less prominent. They'll always play a role in things like Super Bowl, but I think for the younger generation they don't really wanna interact in that way. Thinking about when we transition that lo-fi creative to other mediums and have it work in a way is is something I think I spend a lot of time on

Ilyse Liffreing: (11:29)

Now, you've publicly mentioned your passion for coaching and developing young talent. What advice do you have for marketers, especially maybe young marketers looking for that level up?

Nicole Parlapiano: (11:41)

Well this could be a whole podcast. I was writing like so many things. I think be patient is one. I mean this industry is hard. It's not one that I started in, it's one that that I had a hard time breaking into. Whether you're trying to get a job at an agency and you don't have agency experience, you might have media agency experience, but none of the creative agencies want you 'cause you're not creative enough. Then when you're on the agency side, getting someone on the client side to hire you, there's so many different jumps. It's important to stay patient, it's important to stay hungry, it's important to stay humble. The industry is always moving and things might not work out one place. You know, you have to just keep it moving. So many people are not willing to take a step back to take a step forward and they stay stuck. Be very meticulous about what you're building for in your career and if you wanna take a step forward, you need to be prepared to take a step back sometimes, especially early in your career and say you're at an agency and you've been there for five years and you feel stuck, well guess what? You're not gonna get the same title on the client side. You're gonna have to take a step back to take a step forward, but you have to be willing to do that. Otherwise you're just gonna stay pretty stagnant.

Ilyse Liffreing: (12:49)

That's good advice. Yeah. Is there a marketer that you turn to for inspiration?

Nicole Parlapiano: (12:55)

I'm obsessed with Liquid Death and here's why. And I know everyone is, but here's why I'm obsessed with them. They came into a category much like us, where there's like the established players, the rules are there, you need to have X, Y, and Z celebrity endorsements. They came into an industry and they just completely did it their way and they built a cult following from everything that they do to like how they showed up at Super Bowl two years ago. No celebrities, just, just totally a funny, enjoyable ad to in social. When people complain about them the way they gracefully and elegantly address it and respond, I mean everything they do feels endemic to that brand. Feels right and they've had tremendous growth. So I, I haven't had a moment where I've seen something come from them and it didn't feel like right, but like so different and so interesting. They're one I watch a lot.

Damian Fowler: (13:48)

Yeah, they're amazing. We did a podcast with one of their lead marketers early on and we were laughing out loud at some of the things that they were doing and talk about mischievous

Ilyse Liffreing: (13:57)

And viral.

Damian Fowler: (13:58)

I just wanted to say, you mentioned something about funny and funny ads and like we're seeing a lot a return of these kind of mischievous or funny ads. Is that your experience, your observation that we're gonna get back to that a little bit more.

Nicole Parlapiano: (14:09)

I mean, don't you think we should like isn't our job as advertisers to make people like, you know, yes, you can make people cry if that's the thing, but like make people feel something like, I don't know, our ads that we have out now, they're just fun and they're just funny and they're enjoyable to watch. You know, when we're reviewing creative and you're thinking, God, it's only five seconds in, it should feel quick, it should be entertaining. Our job ultimately at the end of the day is to entertain and yes, land a message. But you can't land a message if you're not entertaining. Just not taking ourselves too seriously in these very heavy and in serious times is I think what people need and just being sensitive to that.

Damian Fowler: (14:54)

And that's it for this edition of the current podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned

Ilyse Liffreing: (14:59)

And if you love this podcast, be sure to subscribe and leave a review while you're at it. Check out our other show, the current report, our weekly roundup of what's happening in the world of digital media. The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by love and caliber. The current team includes Chris Brooklier and Kat Vesce.

Damian Fowler: (15:19)

And remember,

Nicole Parlapiano: (15:20)

Be very meticulous about what you're building for in your career and if you wanna take a step forward, you need to be prepared to take a step back sometimes, especially early in your career.

Damian Fowler: (15:29)

I'm Damian

Ilyse Liffreing: (15:30)

And I'm Ilyse

Damian Fowler: (15:31)

And we'll see you next time.

Dive into more insights and inspiration from leaders in ad tech: https://www.thecurrent.com/

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Activision Blizzard's Jonathan Stringfield on how advertisers can attach themselves to gamers' loyalty to specific franchises and how to find community in gaming. 

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

DAMIAN (00:01):

I'm Damian Fowler.

ILYSE (00:02):

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. 

DAMIAN (00:04):

And welcome to this edition of The Current podcast.

ILYSE (00:10):

This week we're delighted to talk with Jonathan Stringfield, VP of Global Business Research and Marketing at Activision Blizzard.

DAMIAN (00:17):

Activision Blizzard made headlines in October. Microsoft closed its $69 billion deal with the gaming company, the home of legendary games like Candy Crush, Call of Duty and World of Warcraft. Activision says it's ready for the next chapter as part of the Microsoft family,

ILYSE (00:34):

As well as being a VP at the company. Jonathan is also the author of Get In the Game, an Essential Guide for Marketers and Execs who want to integrate their brands with Modern Games and eSports published in 2022 by Wiley.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (00:53):

Sure. Well, so first of all, thanks for having me. I'm super excited to, uh, to be here today. Um, and, and again, I think the book is realistically a reflection of where we are in the greater marketing agency as it pertains to gaming, that I think there's been a lot of opportunities that have existed over the years. Um, certainly the marketplace has matured in recent years, but overall the level of investment in gaming is considerably lower relative to I think the amount that the fans are investing in it, the extent to which that this is consuming a greater amount of their time. And that on the whole, there's a lot of questions from marketers in terms of what's the right way to integrate and realistically no good resources in terms of how do we start to get folks to understand what is ostensibly not just a a form of entertainment. It's a new way in which people are increasingly interacting with media more generally. So the book was in some ways kind of a starter, what I was hoping to be a bit of a foundational educational piece to really kind of advance this conversation forward in the broader marketing industry. Yeah,

DAMIAN (01:51):

There's definitely intense interest and I've noticed even in the last 12 months it's picked up incredibly. Can you give us a sense of the scale now of gaming worldwide to sort of establish that, that context? Yeah,

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (02:05):

For sure. I mean, you know, I think the latest estimates are the total gaming population will be about three and a half billion by next year. So somewhere between a third and a half of the population on the planet plays games, right. Substantial. Right. So, you know, I, I think that alone is, you know, kind of one of these light bulb moments for folks that, you know, when we think about what it means to play a video game more generally, again, you kind of get that classic view of like someone with a controller or maybe at a PC or what have you. But realistically, one of the biggest segments of gaming fans out there is, is mobile. Right? And since everyone has, or virtually everyone has a mobile device globally that can handle games like Candy Crush, what we found is that the surface area for people that enjoy games is just that much bigger. So, you know, when you look at the stats and see that, you know, conceivably the revenue that's attributed to gaming dwarfs things like film, movies, music, or what have you, it's because of the scale of the industry first and foremost in terms of how many fans have proliferated certainly in the last decade or so.

DAMIAN (03:06):

Yeah. What's interesting is people have certain preconceptions about gamers and gamers have changed over the years. I remember when I was coming about, I had an Atari 800 and I used to play Frogger. I don't really consider myself a gamer anymore, but could you give us a little insight in terms of who are gamers?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (03:25):

Yeah, so even the term gamer is kind of interesting in so far that it already kind of attributes a label that then kind of sparks preconceptions that are mine, right? So, you know, if we take a step back, we don't talk about, you know, folks that are watching movies as cinephiles per se, right? Or folks that are really into music with, with very specific terms. So in that world, even just thinking about gamers themselves, that kind of just entails someone who has or really kind of pulls some degree of identity from it, which is certainly the case. There are folks that like readily identify as a gamer and are, you know, very into it. And one of these, you know, spend multiple, multiple hours and lots of investment in the ecosystem and so on and so forth. But then there's just as many, actually many more folks who don't necessarily consider themselves a gamer, but they definitely play video games, right?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (04:11):

And a lot of it is on mobile phones, but then some of these same folks do on consoles and PC and what have you. And one of the biggest trends we'll continue to see in the gaming industry broadly is that we're really looking at a world where we're trying to make sure that the experiences that we provide can be accessed on virtually any device. So I think by that metric, what we'll find is that the, the, the definition is gonna continue to expand. So going back to your question, like who is a gamer? I mean, it, again, it's it's a little bit hokey and we say it a lot, but it is kind of everyone to a certain degree. And it's just, it is the different ways that folks are entering what is an ecosystem, not just an individual channel that kind of differentiates them.

DAMIAN (04:50):

Yeah. So it's not a sort of niche thing and the, the definition of gamer has here, the two maybe been a sort of niche thing, but what you're saying is it's definitely not that.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (04:59):

And, and, and I think there's no better example than what's been happening in recent years, right? So that even that concept of a gamer kind of implies that this is a different group of folks. This is an abnormal group of people that is doing something other folks do, don't or don't do. And again, that's just not the case. Right? And again, look at things like the extent to which you see gaming IP in major movies, television shows. I think there's some, last I counted, 40 or 50 individual projects for TV or movie being developed from game IP right now.

ILYSE (05:29):

Wow, that's a lot. .

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (05:30):

It's a lot. And, and the, the other thing, and, and again, it's good now. So like there, there is this world where, you know, if you think about, you know, how games have been portrayed in movies like maybe in the early nineties, like wasn't that great, right? Mm-hmm. and like kind of left a bad taste in people's mouth, not just folks that weren't fans of the games, but candidly even the fans of the game. And that's really changed in recent years. And I think, again, we could talk a lot about why that happened and partially it's, you know, Hollywood, I think taking the stories in these games more seriously, but then also understanding that there's a big established fandom here. And if they want to bring this experience to a different screen, they need to resonate with that. So what that means in general is that it's just becoming not something that's an offset of culture. It's popular culture. And I think what we'll see in coming years is that already it's the case with even generations as young. And I'm definitely throwing up air quotes 'cause I'm in this generation as millennials, they spend most of their time gaming relative to other forms of media. And I don't think the marketing world has caught up with that fact.

ILYSE (06:28):

Do you happen to have a favorite gaming movie?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (06:30):

My favorite gaming movie? Oh, I mean, you know, honestly, at this point I do have a lot of heart for the old ones from the nineties just because, you know, that's what I grew up with was were those, and, and for me it was just so cool to kind of see them even be represented on screen like that. So like the original Super Mario Brothers movie and Street Fighter and things like that, like all really cool projects. I think the one that really kind of spoke to me personally, um, and again, it feels like this is gonna be like a bit of a pitch for the company, and I promise you it isn't is actually the Warcraft movie Uhhuh

ILYSE (07:01):

.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (07:01):

Because at that point, by the time that movie came out, I'd been playing Warcraft for a decade at least. And again, I'm not alone that that's a very common behavior you've seen. So again, think about Super Mario Brothers, any of these other movies, you know, folks are coming to this with the intention and with the knowledge that they've been engrossed in those worlds for 10 years, 20 years, some times, 30 years, they're gonna have expectations in terms of how that's portrayed in that media. Yeah.

ILYSE (07:25):

And you know, you mentioned it's very much like a family kind of affair. Um, one of the most interesting insights we saw on your site is that actually like one in five gamers are actually made up of women with children. So would you say mom's got game ?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (07:40):

Mom definitely has game and, and parents have game and, and you know, it it's, it, there's, I think again, with that whole concept of how gaming is increasingly encroaching upon modern culture is that you now have folks that grew up gaming, and again, I'm, I'm definitely in this vanguard who have basically been playing video games their entire life, have kept up with the hobby throughout, and now we have homes and mortgages and kids and a bad hip and things like that. Like we are the principal shoppers in the household, and then we share that with our children, right? Like, and again, it's like anything else you think about how like, sports team, fandom, proliferates, that doesn't happen in abstract. Like kids don't come outta the womb being, you know, rooting for the Cubs or something like that. It's because of a shared connection with their, with their family. Same thing here. So both of my kids, they are big time gaming fans. And again, probably a lot of my influence on that, but even now I have one that's off to college and we can still hang out, right? Because we can hang out in virtual worlds. And again, I think there's something powerful about that.

ILYSE (08:37):

Activision has some of the world's most iconic, most played games, candy Crush, call of Duty, world of Warcraft. I know myself, I'm a big Candy Crush player. I play it every day on the subway. , can you give us a sense of how and why these games prove so compelling?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (08:54):

I mean, I I, I think there, there's a couple things we could look at, right? So on the one hand, almost all of the, like the games you just mentioned have been around for decades, right? So just as it stands now they're popular because there's been something about them that has kind of hooked someone into that. And again, whether it's like really novel and interesting mechanics, like Candy Crush, whether it's something like social connectivity from a game like World of Warcraft, whether they're just really interested in the story of the world, like something like Diablo, there's been something within those games that speaks to folks, right? And it speaks to 'em in such a way that, you know, again, when you think about media in general that we get engrossed in, that we come fans in, it's something that we develop a lot of affinity for.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (09:34):

And what's different, I think for something like a video game is that, you know, you're not just watching a protagonist in many cases, you are the protagonist. You are I impacting and have agency within that world. So the extent to which that you can form connectivity with that media, it's gonna be so much greater. And then again, you layer on other fans that are participating with it, your connection with them. And you know, you'll hear their stories about people that've been playing World of War crap that made lifelong friends, they met their wife, they got married through the game, they got married in the game. Even , like that's, you know, kind of speaks to how powerful this can be for folks that this is where they find common ground to talk with others about their passions. Would

DAMIAN (10:08):

That getting married in a game, uh, would that constitute a premium gaming experience?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (10:14):

? I would certainly think they think so. Right? And, and you know, and again, there, there's something to be said about like, you know, it, it's one of these things where folks will literally get married in the real world and then have a ceremony in the game, and like they buy each other rings or exchange items or whatnot. And, and you know, again, I think it's easy to kind of sit back and be like, wow, that's kind of weird. Like, but if that is the basis of your relationship, if you met your partner and participated and had adventures and shared stories with them for 10 years, 15 years, then yeah, it's meaningful. And, and, and again, I think these are the types of connections that folks are not quite in tuned with yet. But it speaks to again, how much this type of media tends to affect its fandom

DAMIAN (10:57):

From, from a marketing point of view, the what does it mean to have a premium access to premium gaming experiences? And what kind of research do you do around this to define that concept?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (11:09):

I mean, I think the, first of all, I think we can take the step back that like premium is by far the most abused word in all of advertising, right? Like straight up, right? And again, I, I think that it's hard to find like hard and fast rules in terms of what does or does not constitute it. But in my mind, what I think will, will always tend to be the case is like, you'll see that on the one hand it's these games that have large followings and they have large followings for different reasons. Again, whether it's engagement, the mechanics, the story, social connections, or what have you. And realistically, one of the parts that I find most satisfying about my job is that, you know, these are household names, right? Like even if you don't really play video games, you have heard of Call of Duty, you have heard of Warcraft, you have heard of Candy Crush.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (11:48):

So there is definitely a qualitative and quantitative difference for games of that type relative to, to others where there might be experience. And again, that isn't to say that there's, you know, a big differentiation or that like folks shouldn't explore all kinds of places within the, in the gaming environment. But I think it is important to understand that, particularly in these premium experiences, one, a lot of love and care goes in on the development side. And then two, the fans have a lot of love and care for those environments as well. So what we've found in terms of research that we've done, both as it pertains to how our, um, you know, our players think about these experiences or what have you, is that they realistically see that brands when integrated into these titles that are kind of like the more household name premium games, they start to associate the same type of feelings that they have for the game to the brand, which is again, almost entirely the point, right? Like they're try like the, the, the high bar I think for brands is to kind of be able to participate in some of that equity and have it shine on their brand. And we try to facilitate that in a way that's both efficacious for brands, but then again also works well with the expectations of our fans in the game environment.

ILYSE (12:56):

How do you make it possible for brands to actually engage with like, active users of the game? I know there's so much, so many possibilities these days compared to like even a decade ago mm-hmm. .

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (13:07):

See? And yet I think, so you, you hit on an important PO point that there have been opportunities in games almost since games existed. There was some form of advertising. The issue was that back in the day, it was tough and it wasn't super flexible and it, it just wasn't how marketers liked to buy things, right? It was basically you had to be hard coded into the game experience and you lived there kind of in perpetuity. And that's not really how media buyers think. So the big shift that's happened over say, we'll say the last 10 years, but I think we, we could quibble over like, you know, what the exact dates are is that internet connectivity on these games, you know, programmatic, um, technology things have made it a lot more turnkey. So as it stands now in the ecosystem, there's kind of two polarities in terms of opportunities, again, speaking at a very, very high level.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (13:52):

On the one hand you have integrated marketing. So this, these are the things that you see that are like the concerts, these in-depth integrations, you know, you know, Humvees and games like Call of Duty, things of that nature that really kind of speak to customized builds within the game environment. On the other hand, you have a lot of programmatic media opportunities that even occur in games like Candy Crush or what have you that are video spots and what have you, that we tie into the game environment again, in a way that kind of fits with the mechanics. And that's kind of more or less the, the high level answer to your question is that we really take a lot of time to understand, one, the design intent of our developers. And again, we are fundamentally a game company. So we work hand in hand with our developers to figure out where are the opportune places where brands can integrate, not just in a way that's not obtrusive with our players, but optimally in a way that can enhance the play experience. And whether that's providing them a reward or integrating a brand in a way that actually like increases the realism or the immersion of the actual, you know, game environment. That's kinda the bar we try to set.

ILYSE (14:51):

That's awesome. Uh, could you give us a few like, examples of brands that you guys have worked with in that kind of environment and way?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (14:58):

I mean, I think, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll stop short of calling out any specific brand aside, but we'll note that I think one of the big misconceptions about gaming is that has to be like endemic brands. That is definitely not the case, right? So we see everything from C P G to restaurants to anything in between. And actually we did do a case study with, um, Prada recently where they were put their, one of their fragrances product candy within Candy Crush, right? Which, you know, kind of makes sense that there's already like some degree of continuity between the two. And interestingly for Product Candy, it is a fragrance that has existed for a while. So it's not a new extension. It had been out on market, but then they wanted to kind of reinvigorate it, they integrated a candy crush. We did like an interactive game for players to like, you look and search for the fragrance on there, and then it linked to their site where they could pull out a sample and they went through all their samples almost instantly, right? So it's something that like, because it resonated that well with the game, it's something that, you know, the fans were really attracted to and I think really drove great results for Product Handy in that case.

DAMIAN (15:58):

I wanted to ask you, you know, where I wanted to ask you, what does your research tell you about where people are playing these games? I know there's a split between mobile and console gaming.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (16:07):

Yeah, so I mean, what you'll find is that, you know, again, I think when we were talking earlier about how the overall gaming market has expanded, you know, the vast majority of game activity happens on mobile. And again, as a game publisher, we paid attention to that. So it's not only that we have, you know, titles like Candy Crush, which have ostensibly been mobile since mobile gaming was, was a possibility. We're also bringing a lot of our other franchises to mobile environments. So Call of Duty mobile is a great example. Diablo Immortal. We really wanna take all these franchises that were historically console specific and bring them to mobile environments. Now, what's gonna be I think really interesting is that gaming is increasingly going to be a hobby that is divorced from gaming devices. And by that what I mean is through cloud technologies, through increasing speeds on mobile, what we'll find is that virtually anywhere that there's a screen that's smart, there's probably gonna be an opportunity to play a game. And that's where I think we'll continue to see kind of the, the overall rise of the ecosystem. And so far that the easier it is for folks to access these experiences, the more opportunities it gets to build that audience. So I think what you'll find is that, you know, some of the biggest franchises won't just be relegated consular pc, they'll continue to go more mobile, but then eventually they're just gonna go to any screen that has an internet connection. I think that'll be a really interesting shift for the industry. Yeah,

DAMIAN (17:24):

I see. Yeah.

ILYSE (17:26):

Cool. You know, Activision asserts that gaming drives community authenticity and engagement. How would you say that's possible and why does it matter to potential advertisers?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (17:37):

I mean, it really gets back to that point of fandom. It's, you know, something that we, we've been talking a lot about that, you know, fans, you know, fandoms are created around shared love of a form of media, and again, be a sports team could be anything, right? But in this case, it is indeed some of these game titles. And on the one hand you have a group of folks that are substantively interested in a given form of media in this, in this case a game. Many of them with social features in them, right? So like World of Warcraft, call of Duty, these are all social games. You speak with your teammates, right? Like people are getting married and what have you through these games, but even those that don't actually have social con connectivity built in Candy Crush is a great example. There's still a huge fandom of Candy Crush fans that go to like web forums to talk about strategies in Candy Crush.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (18:22):

So they will go and find their community no matter what. And again, that I think speaks to the power of it. So that's, you know, the, the opportunity for advertisers is that, you know, fandoms are powerful, right? When someone has that degree of connectivity to media, when it's effective on that level, right, with an a, it can be effective with an e for advertisers. And I think the concern is that because of the intense love that, you know, game players have for games, that can actually be a little scary for advertisers. They believe if they integrate in a way that, you know, well, one, they believe they're not welcome in general, but then two, if they don't integrate in a very specific way, that's gonna kind of go sideways on them. And again, I think there is something to be said that there are ways that you can integrate in gaming that are not gonna be super fan forward and therefore problematic. But if you find a way to integrate that is fan forward that does kind of fit with the needs and expectations of the fans, it can be super effective for advertisers for that reason of the level of affinity that the game players have for the experience.

DAMIAN (19:24):

It seems like gaming is driving a, a, a big shift in entertainment habits and, and is is not siloed anymore as just a gaming thing over here, you know, a a movie experience over here. It's, it's kind of, uh, crossing, I don't know what's the word? Uh,

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (19:39):

Transmedia might be one of the words, right? Yeah. Like where it's multiple stories talked about through multiple forms of media. Yeah.

DAMIAN (19:45):

And, and you know, on that point, how, what does this mean for, for marketers? Do they understand how entertainment habits are actually changing? Are they, are they there yet? Is there, is there more that they need to know?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (19:57):

I mean, I, I think there's still learning to be done. And, you know, when I go out and I speak about gaming, my, the general point that I want advertisers to walk away with is that even if you aren't bought into the idea of gaming, per se, what you can be bought into is the fact that media in general is becoming more interactive. And gaming is obviously at the forefront of interactive media. And I think advertisers are very good at and understand even down to the psychology of how people think about movies or watch shows, or even Peru's social media less so I think at this time about things like interactivity, it's a different set of psychologies, right? It is a different way in which someone's mind is literally tuned into the media. And I think we're still kinda at the early stages of that.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (20:43):

And, and you know, I think there I am, I'm encouraged that it has become a broader conversation. I think, you know, when things like the metaverse and whatnot were very hot, that was basically a reflection of that, right? Because everything that the metaverse was that we were talking about, you know, about a year ago and that are no longer really talking about it was basically just gave me experiences, but it was the right idea, right? That oh wow, there's all these people, they're in these online interactive spaces. How should I think about that? And again, maybe wrong focus at that point, but it was the right question.

DAMIAN (21:13):

Hmm. And one of the things I you are very interested in is, is measuring attention and attention metrics. How does that work in the context of gaming and why is it so significant? Have we caught up yet? Have marketers caught up with the way we should be looking at how people are paying attention in these new forms of media?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (21:30):

I mean, you know, it is certainly the case that you will be hard pressed to find a single marketer out there that is happy with their measurement period. And, and again, to be clear, that's not a problem necessarily with the measurement companies. That's just kind of the nature of how measurement works with advertising, not the least of which. And again, I think apropos adver or to attention specifically is that the focus and conversation around attention in my mind just really signals that we are dissatisfied with the metrics that we have today. Fundamentally, most of the media that we're buying on is through the same metrics and lenses that we use circa 1970, right? It's reach and frequency, which is great, it has its purposes. Obviously advertising is a scale game. We need to make sure that we have enough people that see a message, but we're less sure about whether it mattered to them or whether they saw it.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (22:19):

Because again, recall that, you know, reach is an opportunity to see not whether someone saw it. So on the one hand, I think attention is becoming a broader conversation, one because I think we, there is more focus on not just the breadth, but the depth of these potential interactions and how folks are consuming media. But then also because in worlds where more media's consumed interactively reach and frequency just might not cut it. Now again, it's an interesting conversation, but much like the general dissatisfaction around measurement more generally, we're pretty far away from a standardized definition. I think it's a, it's an active and interesting conversation that's going on, but in my mind, regardless, almost regardless of what definition we'd land on, is something that I think needs to happen because otherwise we're still gonna be stuck in the same reach frequency mode of buying that we kind of used to buy linear TV several decades ago.

DAMIAN (23:11):

I mean, one of the challenges, uh, I guess one of the needs for this idea of attention metrics is to be able to measure results in different channels. And it's not apples to oranges, it's apple want. The, the need is to kind of a me have an apples to apples measurement, right? And that doesn't necessarily exist yet. And I'm wondering about, you know, when it comes to gaming future integrations across different channels, how do you see that? I mean, playing out,

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (23:38):

So gaming is one of the big challenges that I think we have as a, as certainly as a gaming publisher, but then also the broader marketing world has about thinking about gaming in general is that, you know, if we think about social, right, you're looking at degrees of apps and ev all these apps are different, but fundamentally, if you're focusing on one, like it's an app, and, and again, that's not to say that's not very complicated what have you, but like it's a technology, gaming is an ecosystem, right? So even if you were to go and have someone sit in this chair and ask them, oh, are are you doing anything in gaming? They'll say, oh yeah, yeah, I am. And if you ask them what are they doing, you're gonna get a lot of different answers, right? Like, maybe it's Twitch, maybe it's eSports, maybe it's mobile games, maybe it's some spots and dots and you know, console titles or what have you.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (24:22):

Huge degree of diversity. So on the one hand, when we've been thinking about measurement, we want it to be applicable to every experience that an advertiser can have in our ecosystem. And the more that we can build our platform to essentially get some degree of equivalence, whether it's across any number of touchpoint within the ecosystem, the better, broader industry, cross platform measurement is a conversation that's been going on as long as I've been doing ad measurement. That's a long time. Um, and, and again, I think we're a pretty far ways away if we're being honest with ourselves. Again, even if we take gaming to a side and don't even think about that just in general media, we're pretty far ways away. But I am encouraged by things like attention, because what we can agree on is things like reach and frequency, right? Like we might have some disagreement about when, where, and how and how do we wanna like measure things like fraud and delivery and what have you. But we all kind of know what it means and we can all kind of compare it across them. What attention needs to do is get to that point. And when it gets to that point, then it becomes a currency, then it becomes useful. And then I think it becomes super meaningful that not only are we understanding the scale of the potential execution, but again also how much it affected us, which in my mind is super important for interactive media like gaming.

ILYSE (25:32):

Now you mentioned you foresee basically anything with a screen being an area or an opportunity for someone to game. And it's true that like gaming is making its way into like a bunch of different channels. Even like Netflix now has games, for instance. It's crazy. Um, how do you see like other like, forms of new technology from AI to Metaverse technologies further expand the potential like real estate for gaming and opportunities to reach gamers?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (26:01):

So if we, if we tick through the buzzwords real quick, right? So like on on, on the one hand, ai, super popular conversation going on, AI's been used in gaming for years, right? So like, and, and again, like we could get a little bit wonky and just talk about, eh, it's for the most part just machine learning and stats and things we've been doing for a while. But, you know, again, even things like procedural generation, what have you, that's been part and parcel to gaming for a long time. So on the one hand, you know, there's something to be said about game developers have experienced with that, but we, you know, continue to lean into these new worlds because again, it creates a lot of power in terms of how we can make experiences on a more scaled basis. As a general note, when I, again, one of these kind of truisms that I give folks is that when they want to think about or really see what kind of the future of the media landscape is, you do wanna look to gaming for these types of things, right?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (26:48):

So again, ai, it's kind of been a part of gaming for quite some time. Vr, same deal, right? Like, so for the most part, most of the more popular experiences we have in VR are generally games. But then on the other hand, if you look at the percentage of people on platforms like steam, which is a very popular, um, platform for PC gaming, the install base of VR headsets is about 2%. It usually waffles between one or 2%. So again, you would kind of already know that the market for VR hasn't really developed even then just looking at how gamers are oriented towards it. And metaverse, you know, again, there, it was very much a double-edged blood blade type of conversation that on the one hand I was really excited that people were starting to think about online immersive, interactive environments. On the other hand, they were just talking about gaming, but calling it something else, right?

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (27:40):

And I think there has been a little bit of correction, like yes, there are grander plans or grand plans in terms of building something more generalized like a metaverse, but realistically all of our best practice for it and all the techno technology platforms that exist right now are gaming. So on the one hand, like there's a lot to be said about all these types of things with within the gaming ecosystem, but on the other, you know, a a again, I think it's important for marketers to understand not just because of the opportunity within gaming today, because there are many, but also it's a really good lens to kind of judge some of these new emerging trends through in terms of how it's worked in the gaming ecosystem. Mm-hmm. ,

ILYSE (28:17):

You know, one area of gaming that is continuing to grow I feel like is that of like e-commerce and shopping through games. Um, you can buy, you know, skins, you can buy elements to build out your characters these days. Just curious about, I guess your outlook on that and how you see growth in that when it comes to e-commerce.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (28:39):

Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, the, the, on the one hand there's something to be said that in general when you look at things like buying skins, even advertisements in games, things of that nature, this is all coming from the fact that the games industry wants to move with the economy of the world in such a way that like we want everyone to play our games and ultimately we just wanna transact with folks in a way that makes sense for them, right? So in some games, some experiences, no one wants to pay anything and maybe they're happy to watch an ad and that's okay. And others they wanna pay 60 or $70 upfront and that's okay too. And then in a third maybe they're buying certain, you know, skins and what have you. And again, that's fine. Like what all of these potential activations allow us to do is just again, be flexible in terms of how we can transact with customers to again, make sure that we're reaching virtually everyone.

JONATHAN STRINGFIELD (29:23):

So on the one hand, I think that's gonna continue to be important not just for the game industry, but also the flexibility that we gain give to game developers. For brands specifically, one, obviously that provides a lot of opportunities because things like advertisements and integration with skins and integrated marketing like we talked about before, like that can all be weaved into there. And then even certain environments being set up as commerce platforms in and of themselves. Like if it's something that makes sense for the game environment, like yeah, right? Like, you know, imagine, again, I'm gonna kind of make this up, but 10 years ago you didn't buy anything online, right? But then it kind of became something that was novel and then it became something that you did a little bit more. And now I buy near everything online, right? Like I like, it's almost weird when I go to a store. I think we could start to see that in gaming, right? The more that we start to use these technologies and become normalized in our everyday practice, then that is something that we'll use for a wider variety of use cases from socialization, whether it be the Metaverse to shopping.

DAMIAN (30:24):

And that's it for this edition of the current podcast. We'll be back next week. So stay tuned.

ILYSE (30:30):

The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by love and caliber. The current team includes Chris Berkley and Cat Festy.

DAMIAN (30:38):

And remember, I'm Damien.

ILYSE (30:47):

And I'm Elise.

DAMIAN (30:48):

And we'll see you next time. And

ILYSE (30:50):

If you love this podcast, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. While you're at it, check out our other show, the current report, our weekly roundup of what's happening in the world of digital media.

Dive into more insights and inspiration from leaders in ad tech: https://www.thecurrent.com/

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

State Farm’s Head of Marketing, Alyson Griffin, breaks down making the company’s iconic jingle a bigger deal next year and diving more into retail media.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler: (00:01)

I'm Damien Fowler. And

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:02)

I'm EIS Lfr. And

Damian Fowler: (00:03)

Welcome to this edition of the current podcast.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:10)

This week we're delighted to talk with Allison Griffin, the head of marketing for State Farm.

Damian Fowler: (00:15)

State Farm Insurance Group has been around for more than a hundred years, but thanks to its high profile marketing campaigns, it remains a household name in the us. Over the years, companies had many entertaining creative campaigns, and the latest of course features the affable character of Jake from State Farm, who was present at a certain NFL game that made headlines in 2023. And

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:36)

We'll get to that with more than 25 years of experience leading teams at top Tech brands. Allison became head of marketing for the Iconic brand in May, 2021. She has a motto which goes like this, always curious, always learning, always happy to share my insights.

Alyson Griffin: (00:59)

State Farm is a 100 year old brand. You know, we've gotta try to figure out how to remain relevant, not only to our current big tried and true customer base of all. I'm pointing at myself, I know we're on a podcast, the Gen Xers of the world and older, but also that next generation. And one of the ways we do that is through life stages. And of course, every marketer knows you have to be relevant to the target that you're going after. Look, people don't think about insurance at all, ever. Maybe , if I could say, with a big smile on my face. So we've gotta think about, you know, your first apartment or your first car, or having a baby or buying a home, or those life stages matter because they matter to the person that they're happening to. They're big events. And for us, dissecting who the target is, what stage they're in, and how, you know, what do they care about? That has started to shape our media strategy. It started to shape how we think about capturing current demand, generating future demand, and retention and loyalty for our customer base.

Ilyse Liffreing: (02:05)

Now there's a lot of strategy, obviously behind your marketing campaigns. For instance, when you're selling auto or life insurance, there's a product for sale. But the genius of your campaigns is that you don't really talk about the product like it's there. Obviously you're selling it, but it's not, you know, in your face. This is auto life insurance. Um, what is the concept you are marketing exactly, would you say? And how does that vary, I guess, based on the demographic?

Alyson Griffin: (02:33)

Yeah, so it's different than, you know, if you hold up your phone or something, it's different than a product that somebody needs to understand how much it costs. How long is the battery life? I'm sort of making this up, this is different. The, the insurance, what we're selling is in part the policy, but it's also in part a relationship with the agent. We have almost 20,000 agents across the United States who are independent contractors, you know, not State Farm employees, and they're running small businesses and trying to be meaningful and are meaningful in the communities where they live and work and offer basically advice services, et cetera. So for us, from a national campaign perspective, we've gotta make sure the brand is strong and branding is not product advertising. We need to make sure that our assets are known and appreciated. And asset is Jake from State Farm that you already mentioned, but also our jingle or even just the words like a good neighbor State Farm is there. And so we dial up and dial down each of those assets in real life or in the virtual world, depending on the life stage. The person that we're targeting, do they know us or not? Are we trying to bind a policy today or not? And that's, you know, the mix with which we're trying to buy media and showing up in places where these current and potential customers are. It's

Damian Fowler: (03:54)

Interesting to hear you talk about big national campaigns and that that awareness that you drive and done it so successfully over the years. And, and the latest iteration of course is is Jake from State Farm, that character, what, why has he proved such a strong character in campaigns?

Alyson Griffin: (04:09)

He started out over 10 years ago as Jake, a real State Farm employee, and it was back when we were putting agents and employees in our ads. And you may recall the original campaign where it's a middle of the night phone call and the husband is talking on the phone, the wife comes downstairs, who are you talking to? And it's Jake from State Farm. And the question is, what are you wearing? And he says, uh, khakis, . So we got a lot of play out of that for many, many, many years. But that was of real employees, not an actor, doesn't, he has a job and a family and a life and isn't a trained actor. So fast forward to about 2019, um, maybe 2018, the company was looking to say, Hey, we have some equity in the, in the asset or the one word, I'll call it Jake from State Farm, all one word.

Alyson Griffin: (04:56)

And you know, how do we dial that up and make that asset work harder and be more meaningful for, for us, because we thought it could be the personification of what it means to be a good neighbor. And we're very fortunate, he is thought of as a real person, and he's not a cartoon or a caricature. He's really Jake from State Farm, he's a guy, he's doing good neighbor stuff, he's got a TikTok account just like regular influencer or regular person would. And for us, making him bring to life the values of what it means to help more people in more ways and to be that good neighbor in the country, uh, really mattered to us. And so we put a lot of effort into making that a cultural icon. Yeah,

Damian Fowler: (05:43)

I mean he really has cut through and he's a very competitive world i, I gather so, and State Farm is very much present in the culture and um, one of the ways that you've done this so successfully is leaning into major sporting personalities, um, over the last several years, uh, including a campaign featuring,

Alyson Griffin: (06:03)

Uh,

Damian Fowler: (06:03)

Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelsey for instance.

Alyson Griffin: (06:06)

What's

Damian Fowler: (06:07)

The playbook there when you, when it comes to partnering with sports stars?

Alyson Griffin: (06:11)

We've been in sports for a very long time and it's important to us because it's tied to real passion. It's one of the last bastions of eyeballs all watching the same event at the same time. Right? Live television doesn't much exist anymore. If you're watching a Netflix episode and I'm watching one, we might not be at the same spot at the same time, for example. But live sports, you get people who are engaged across generations and, and a lot of viewership also don't forget from an advertising perspective, there's also highlights the replays, et cetera. So for us, sports has been long something we've leaned into and the advertising we realized performs better when, if you're not an endemic brand to sports, and we are not. And so for us, aligning our brand with brand ambassadors who match our values and are at the top of their game, showed us that we could cut through. So we have football, you know, Patrick Mahomes, you mentioned Travis Kelsey, he was with us this current football season. Um, and Coach Reed, you know, in football spots and Chris Paul and other NBA players in basketball spots. We have women for women's sports, et cetera. So the idea is if we match the passion and a relevant player and create a spot that leans into endemically where the ad is showing, it just performs much better.

Damian Fowler: (07:31)

Hmm, that's interesting.

Ilyse Liffreing: (07:33)

Now, speaking of sport and Travis Kelsey, let's talk about that viral moment that was created when Jake from State Farm was spotted chatting with who else? The Donna, Kelsey,

Alyson Griffin: (07:43)

Travis

Ilyse Liffreing: (07:44)

Kelsey's mom, of course in the NFL Suite.

Alyson Griffin: (07:47)

What

Ilyse Liffreing: (07:47)

Kind of reaction did you get from this, like viral moments and seeing all the elements come together? Can you walk us through how you kind of seized the moment?

Alyson Griffin: (07:55)

Yeah, that was really interesting. So the week before, we know that Travis Kelsey had a special guest in the box with his mom, and that was Taylor Swift. So I like to say we acted swiftly, . And within a week, um, we were able to place Jake from State Farm at Jason Kelsey's game, the Eagles. And we didn't want, you know, Jason, Kelsey's mom not to have a superstar celebrity sit with her. Uh, I say with a big smile on my face, . And it was great. We, we did have to act really fast. We that came together in less than 48 hours and, and for us capturing a cultural moment, and again, we have this asset that looks like and acts like and feels like a real human being. Jake from State Farm, so he could show up in the stands sitting with Mama Ma Otto, I'll call her as a nod to Travis Kelsey playing Mahomes and Mato in our current ads. Um, but with Donna Kelsey and, and him sitting there, you know, he sits, uh, courtside at NBA Allstar games, he shows up at Bravo con Twitch Con, right? Like, so Jake shows up in the world. And, and so the magic of saying we could really capitalize on this quickly and the fact that all the stars aligned and it came together was really, really fun for us.

Ilyse Liffreing: (09:12)

What does like a viral moment like that though mean for your brand? Because I know you talked about being like culturally resonant brand in insurance

Alyson Griffin: (09:21)

And

Ilyse Liffreing: (09:21)

This would seem like a perfect example of

Alyson Griffin: (09:24)

Doing

Ilyse Liffreing: (09:24)

Just that

Alyson Griffin: (09:25)

For us. Um, being culturally relevant matters. And it's not that any brand tries to be if you try too hard and for us, it's not that we're trying too hard, it's Hey, Jake would be there and we thought that we would be true to who we are. He shows up in those kinds of, um, situations regularly. And so let's just try it. And it wasn't because we were trying to be culturally iconic, it was because it just fit.

Damian Fowler: (09:55)

I mean, I wonder how do you measure something like that? I know it is a viral moment and it goes big, but do you see kind of the results of that?

Alyson Griffin: (10:02)

Yes. You can't pick a viral moment, right? It goes viral because it goes viral. And, and so then all of the, you know, there's the regular stuff you would think the reach, the syndication, the press, the chatter on, you know, X and other social media platforms of course were part of it. Engagement hashtags. That was all obvious. But what we were super excited about is a company EDO does measurement around search volume and correlating the exact second that Jake from State Farm was on camera to search volume was astonishing. Astonishing. And the results of all six of those spots increased in awareness by 15 times because of the viral moment. So it was like something that you wouldn't know, that you can't test and you don't get the opportunity to learn from very often, right? 'cause those don't happen very often. But we saw meaningful increase and value from a very innocent, just let's put Jake from State Farm next to Donna Kelsey.

Damian Fowler: (11:12)

I know you are exploring other channels as well to reach, you mentioned Gen X and Gen Z, the Gen Z audience, which is obviously

Alyson Griffin: (11:19)

Gonna

Damian Fowler: (11:20)

Be looking for insurance too. Um, in particular your gamer hood challenge, which launched last year, and I'm interested to talk about gaming and eSports and why is that an important part of your playbook?

Alyson Griffin: (11:31)

I'm fairly new to State Farm. I've been at State Farm for two and a half years, but I spent almost 30 years in the tech industry. And I say that to say gaming. I was at Hewlett-Packard and Intel for most of my career, and they're endemic to gaming. And so I had a lot of experience in the gaming world when I stepped in the door at State Farm, the insurance category other than maybe a logo sponsorship on a gamer or a game that's pretty much all the insurance industry was doing. And I was like, look, if we can, because the audience mattered these gamers, not eSports teams, but a casual fun gamers, much bigger universe. And we thought if we could tap in for generating future demand, again, these are not people who are buying policies today, but to get and show up at the place they already are with, um, an interest that they already have.

Alyson Griffin: (12:23)

It's very similar to the playbook of sports, but this is a different kind of audience and showing up for them in gaming. And so we created our own intellectual property around a gaming competition. It's run two years in a row now in the month of June for five episode, five weekly episodes and have gamers competing. And we've got Jake from State Farm in there, our assets and we loosely tie insurable moments. So think the gamers have to cope with distractions and still try to win. And some of the distractions are pipes in the house will burst or um, some of them went on a little road trip and they got a flat tire, right? So just loose and fun. We're not selling anything, we're not trying to shove anything down the throats, but to watch these, I'll call them insurable moments, hinder the forward progress of a gamer in a fun, interesting way. And the gamers had a lot of fun with, it was a really cool experience, uh, for us. And it's done quite well. That's

Damian Fowler: (13:21)

Interesting. It goes back to your sort of ways of reaching customers at these different life stages and you're very nuanced about it and, and kind of smart the way you, you're doing it.

Alyson Griffin: (13:31)

Well, exactly where they are on Twitch and YouTube, right? Mm-Hmm. from a gaming perspective. So be where they are, don't make them come to me. Mm-Hmm. , they're not gonna go seeking out an insurance brand. I better go be there. Mm-Hmm. with something fun, interesting and different. And that's what we attempted to do.

Damian Fowler: (13:45)

I also noticed that you had created some Pinterest pins aimed at educating viewers around why they should get life insurance.

Alyson Griffin: (13:53)

Can

Damian Fowler: (13:53)

You talk a little bit about that campaign as well?

Alyson Griffin: (13:55)

Yeah. That's another life stage, right? So these media partners of ours are great because we wanna lean in and be, I'm gonna call it, I've never used this before, but endemic to the partner, right? Mm-Hmm. . So a Pinterest board. Mm-Hmm. . And if you can notice what somebody is doing, whether they're redecorating a room, like looks like, oh, this person might be remodeling their bathroom, or oh, this person might be having a baby, or oh, this person might be buying a new house or cars or whatever. Pinterest is such a great, uh, media outlet for passion points. And we thought, well, these are life moments. And as we talked about at the top of the podcast, these life moments, um, are a way in for us to meet a person where they are and not just say, get a quote for auto insurance, but to go offer them up something that's contextually relevant to what they're doing. And because Pinterest is what Pinterest is, we're able to do that in a meaningful way. Now when it

Ilyse Liffreing: (14:51)

Comes to more like big TV buys and like maybe CTV buys, do you think like holistically about campaigns and connect those big TV buys with like more performance driven plays? Oh,

Alyson Griffin: (15:05)

A hundred percent. So State Farm, you know, is a prolific advertiser, right? Our category demands that. And television was the way, let's say, I don't even know, it's probably wasn't that long ago if I really stopped to think about it. The world's moving so fast.

Ilyse Liffreing: (15:18)

It is, it is.

Alyson Griffin: (15:20)

Goes quickly, but we know that digital matters and so do the, the media partners. They know that, um, digital and the even live shows that get streamed for the week after, they know that they can target that there's a lot of value that they can sell to advertisers for that long tail of their own, even a live experience. So we know that we need to do both. We still are big advertisers in live tv, mostly sports, but also working with the media partners who are putting really great content online and targeting. And that data matters so much and we're working more and more and more with partners to figure out how do we catch the right person at the right time with the right message, um, that's contextually relevant and that helps us be relevant to the person at the time that they need it.

Damian Fowler: (16:13)

Retail data is really come into its own, should we say, and especially for non-endemic brands, again, inside that ecosystem. How has that made a difference? Um, you know, in the last two years,

Alyson Griffin: (16:24)

A lot, it's funny, and I can say this out loud because Home Depot themselves said it, we're the first non-endemic partner of Home Depot, and we're partnering with them not only for their stores and the environment, they have a lot of small businesses as their customers, as well as home ownership, right? Mm-Hmm. and Car Repair and Home and Auto, yeah. Um, and so we are partnering with the Home Depot who knows very deeply about who their customers are and what matters from a data sharing perspective. And, uh, we think there's nowhere to go but up on that. Of course, we do it with media partners, of course. Uh, Disney being a very big one, right? Just because of all of their properties. It, it's on both levels is my point. So a big media partner that knows their audience, but someone like Home Depot or Walmart, those are really important to us so that we can continue to offer the best message to these customers and around things like small business or home improvement or auto care that matters to us. We sell those products.

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:25)

How are you thinking about 2024? Do you think you can actually like build upon this year's viral moments,

Alyson Griffin: (17:32)

? Yeah, I mean, we hope so, right? So Jake from State Farm isn't going anywhere, but we are going to dial up, you'll start seeing, um, more around our jingle. So I'm not saying our jingle is not known like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. I won't sing it here,

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:46)

, although I'll

Alyson Griffin: (17:47)

Tell you, I'll give you a little fun fact That Jingle was written in 1971 by none other than Barry Manalow.

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:53)

No, really?

Damian Fowler: (17:54)

Yes. Does Barry get royalties?

Alyson Griffin: (17:55)

I don't know. , , probably , but we, you know, it's known and there's a lot of TikTok. You can go out and look at our, look at that jingle and see a lot of people playing with the content. We wanna kind of kick that into high gear again and, um, not only talk about Jake from State Farm, but have some fun playing with our jingles. So the notion of being a good neighbor and being there for people is one part of it. But the actual notes, the song of it is another.

Damian Fowler: (18:25)

And that's it for the current podcast. We'll be back next week with our guest, Jonathan Stringfield, the VP of Global Research and Marketing at Activision Blizzard

Jonathan Stringfield:

Gaming is increasingly going to be a hobby that is divorced from gaming devices virtually anywhere that there is a screen that's smart, there's probably gonna be an opportunity to play a game. 

Ilyse Liffreing: (19:02)

And if you love this podcast, be sure to subscribe and leave a review While you're at it. Check out our other show, the current report, our weekly roundup of what's happening in the world of digital media. The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by Loving Caliber. The current team includes Chris Brooklier and Kat Vesce.

Damian Fowler: (19:31)

And remember,

Ilyse Liffreing: (18:30)

The current podcast is produced by Wondered Network. Our theme is by love and caliber. The current team includes Chris Ley and Cat Feste.

Damian Fowler: (18:38)

And remember,

Alyson Griffin: (18:39)

We've gotta make sure the brand is strong and branding is not product advertising. We need to make sure that our assets are known and appreciated.

Damian Fowler: (18:49)

I'm Damien

Ilyse Liffreing: (18:50)

And I'm Elise.

Damian Fowler: (18:51)

And that's it for season seven of the current podcast. We'll be back soon for a new season with more great conversations with the world's leading marketers. And if you like what you hear, subscribe, and please leave as a review. Also tune into our other podcast, the current report as we round up the week's biggest marketing headlines from across the open internet. We'll see you soon.

Dive into more insights and inspiration from leaders in ad tech: https://www.thecurrent.com/

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The NFL’s Marissa Solis on the Taylor Swift effect, expanding globally, and the powerful messaging coming for the Super Bowl.

Episode Transcript

Please note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.

Damian Fowler: (00:01)

I'm Damian Fowler.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:02)

And I'm Ilyse Liffreing. And

Damian Fowler: (00:03)

Welcome to this edition of The Current podcast.

Ilyse Liffreing: (00:10)

This week we're delighted to talk with Marissa Solis, the SVP of Global and Consumer Marketing for the NFL

Damian Fowler: (00:17)

In 2021, the NFL recruited Marissa after almost two decades As a marketing leader with PepsiCo, it was an opportunity to influence the league's almost 400 million sports fans around the world.

Marissa Solis: (00:32)

It's an incredible feeling when the NFL calls and especially with an opportunity to influence the messaging and the marketing of such an incredible platform with so much potential. You know, it's something, an opportunity I can pass up.

Damian Fowler: (00:45)

I mean, there's no doubt about it that the NFL is one of the most dominant cultural forces in the world. So let's start right there. And we obviously have to start with the NFL's, which recent pop culture boost from Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, which is must be a consumer marketer's dream in a way. Could you talk to us about that moment and the opportunity for you as a marketer?

Marissa Solis: (01:05)

It means a lot when things like this happen and it goes so viral, it just goes to show that the NFL is at the peak of, you know, entertainment. I have to tell you, none of us knew this was not planned. This was not anything that was orchestrated. We had sort of heard the rumors about Travis, you know, going to her concert and then inviting her to the game. But we really didn't know. We didn't know she was gonna show up at the game. And so when it all happened, I mean the power of social media, right within 10 seconds this thing went viral. And for us, you know, we have a social media and influencer arm within the league that are ready at the go when anything happens. So we were able to capitalize and have some fun with the fans. Uh, we created some 1 0 1 football videos for Swifties that had never seen the game before on how you play. But think about all of the NFL fans that don't know who Taylor Swift is. So we also were able to do a little bit of education to some of our NFL fans about who she is. So it's actually been a cultural education for a lot of people and we've had a lot of fun with it. Yeah,

Ilyse Liffreing: (02:10)

Thank you for clearing that up because I think a lot of rumors circulating was like, oh, the NF L's behind it, they know this happened. Had no idea they a plan

Marissa Solis: (02:17)

Idea. No idea. But I, I think, you know, it's a really good lesson for marketers. Mm-hmm. Culture happens at the speed of light and you just have to be ready. You know, we like to say or think we create culture, but culture is organic and embedded culture just happens and we just happen to be ready at the moment, right? Yeah.

Damian Fowler: (02:37)

There's no doubt that the Super Bowl is the high point of the year. Curious, are you gonna be using some of these immovable cultural forces like Taylor Swift and Kelsey in your Super Bowl messaging?

Marissa Solis: (02:47)

You know, we always leveraged the Super Bowl to do some powerful messaging around the joy of the sport, but also how the sport transcends. So last year the message was all around the power of women and what women bring to the sport. And now we're in the Olympics. So you're gonna see some powerful messaging about what the league means to culture. It will be a very powerful message.

Ilyse Liffreing: (03:10)

On that note, do you have like a favorite Super Bowl ad?

Marissa Solis: (03:13)

I did not even know you were gonna ask me that by the way. But I have to say, and it's very ironic, my favorite Super Bowl out of all times was actually created by Tim Ellis, who's my boss. He was not at the NFL at the time, he was at Volkswagen and it's the Darth Vader spot. You know, I don't know if you know where the, where the little boy he's playing Darth Vader and at the end the dad turns on the car and he's like, oh my God, I love, love that spot. And when I interviewed with Tim that was like the first thing I

Damian Fowler: (03:44)

Wanted to just pivot a little bit. I saw an interview in the Hollywood reporter with uh, the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who was headlined Hollywood's MVP. And in that piece he talks about how the NFL has embraced streaming, which you know is a topic we talk about a lot. And he was quoted as saying

Marissa Solis: (04:00)

The

Damian Fowler: (04:01)

Technology's changing, the platforms are changing, the economy is changing and we have to be ahead of that strategy at all times so that we are where our fans are and on the platforms they want to be on. Can you talk to us a little bit about the challenge

Marissa Solis: (04:12)

And

Damian Fowler: (04:13)

Opportunity of these streaming platforms that he's talking about

Marissa Solis: (04:17)

Really more of an opportunity. It really becomes about, like he said, being where our fans are and we know particularly Gen Z, they're not necessarily watching linear tv. They're not spending three and a half hours, you know, watching a game. And so that's why platforms like Google and YouTube and having Sunday ticket on there opens up an incredible way to distribute our content. Also it opens up the power of the creator economy for us because we can leverage a lot of YouTube's creators to create content to attract this audience. You think about all of the different things we've been able to do with that YouTube partnership, every club has a YouTube channel. We have our Spanish language NFL channel. So we've been able to do a lot with Google and YouTube. We also have our Thursday night football partnership with Amazon. So for the first time ever, this is the second year that a Thursday night a big platform game is completely streamed. We're now commanding on average 13 million viewers a week on a streaming platform. That's massive. I don't know if you guys know this, but this will be the first year in history that we create a Black Friday game on Amazon. So first time ever there's a Friday NFL game, it's on Amazon Prime but it's going to be free. So it's not behind the paywall. Anybody can join, anybody can stream it. So we think it's gonna be huge.

Damian Fowler: (05:38)

That's gonna be huge. Yeah. Wow. Another huge cultural force. Another

Marissa Solis: (05:42)

Huge cultural force. So now you have a Black Friday game, you know, it's a new watching occasion.

Ilyse Liffreing: (05:47)

What do you think overall about like streaming and live sports coming together and just captivating like whole new audiences? I know with the brand like the NFL, which everybody knows, it's kind of can be hard to like strike a balance between embracing like new preferences and habits of like younger consumers while also then maintaining the authenticity and tradition of a brand as like iconic as the NFL.

Marissa Solis: (06:12)

Yeah, of course. And it, it is the right balance and the beautiful thing is when you look at linear tv, even though you know you start to see some audiences leave linear, we still command the biggest audiences on linear, right? We just had our largest game ever on Sunday night with 28 million viewers. Now some of that may have been the Travis and Taylor Swift effect, but we're still commanding audiences on linear. However, when you look at the opportunity to do streaming, like I said, direct to consumer, we just launched our direct to consumer platform, NFL plus. And so you can also stream games on your mobile, you can look at statistics, you can look at lifestyle and stories, uh, of the players and really get much more involved in the game than just watching, you know, the traditional three hour game. There's a lot more there to, to see and learn about.

Ilyse Liffreing: (07:04)

Now part of your remit is to help diversify the marketing for the NFL or as you put it so nicely, future-proof the brand. I have read that 60% of the NFL audience is white and over 35 the America of the future however will be very young and multicultural. So how do you approach this challenge?

Marissa Solis: (07:23)

I think that stat that you read is probably about two years old and interestingly enough, that was one of the reasons I came to the NFL. In order for us to stay relevant in the future, we have to reflect the audiences that we serve. And as the world gets more multicultural as Gen Z and Jen A as they kind of come into being, we really have to embrace them and bring 'em in. So part of our strategy is to keep the fan base we have, but a big part of our strategy is to extend to those new audiences. So that includes, you know, gen Z and younger audiences, but also multicultural audiences, our Latino audience, our African American and Asian audience, our L-G-B-T-Q community. Like we really need to embrace them and bring them in to engage with a sport in a new way.

Damian Fowler: (08:11)

Can I just ask, how specifically do you try to engage those different communities?

Marissa Solis: (08:16)

Yeah, I think it's about meeting them where they are, both from a channel perspective, right? How they're watching, but also understanding how they engage with the game. They all engage with the game very, very differently. You know, our Latino audience is an example. The way they watch, the way they celebrate, the way they tailgate is very, very different. They bring in their traditions and so we wanna celebrate that. We've been doing a lot this year to really highlight Latino players 'cause people don't even realize we have 51 Latino players on the roster playing and each one of them has a very unique and different story. So you know, whether it's Fred Warner from the 49 ERs ERs who's a Mexican descent or young Colombian player, you know, who just got drafted in the league Rodriguez who plays for the Patriots. It's all about kind of bringing to life in a very different way to these audiences, uh, the game. And

Ilyse Liffreing: (09:09)

One of those audiences is women too. And the NFL has made a big effort towards getting more women involved in the game, both as staff and then as fans. What are some ways you're trying to connect your marketing to women?

Marissa Solis: (09:21)

Yeah, I think women, you know, are big part of our fan base. Almost 47% of our fan base are women. We have the highest women fan base percent of any league in the country and women love football, right? So it really is about engaging them in the game in a unique way, recognizing not just how they engage and watch the game, but also how they participate. I don't think people realize we have so many women champion players, right? Both flag football but also tackle. I just heard that there was the first ever high school girl that just got a scholarship to play tackle to be the kicker for a college team. So more and more women are participating, they're becoming coaches, trainers, scouts, you know, executives. So it's a great way to kind of see that level of participation. And of course, you know, we have to get back to Taylor and the swifty effect capturing this fan base, right? The swifties as you call them and really having the opportunity to educate them, bring them in, bring kind of that cultural fandom, the lifestyle, whether it's the music, the fashion, the food, all of those things are part of the NFL and part of the sport. So it just makes it richer and and more relevant.

Ilyse Liffreing: (10:37)

Do you see that Taylor Swift effect, if you will, kind of more as like a flash in the pan or do you think they'll have like a last engagement? Especially with women?

Marissa Solis: (10:45)

What I think is important for us is that we have a moment in time where swifties, as we call 'em, are paying attention. And so this is our moment to capture them and bring 'em into the sport so that they engage ongoing. Whether the Taylor Swift effect last or doesn't last, we wanna keep that fan base and we'll do so by again being culturally relevant, bringing in their life, their music, their fashion, the way they really wanna engage the game.

Damian Fowler: (11:13)

The NFL really is a cultural force and a lot of brands look to the NFL as sort of a beacon for sports across the media landscape. You know, I'm wondering how, you know, you approach distribution and partnerships in your marketing and what brands can learn from how you approach it.

Marissa Solis: (11:28)

I mean, again, it's really about being where the fans are. So every partnership matters, right? And we take every partnership very seriously. And so whether it's a partnership that has a lot of reach so that we reach a massive audience or maybe it's a partnership that will reach somebody different, whether it's in another country or a segment of, you know, the fan base that we haven't reached before. We have a very nascent platform right now as an example called Mundo, NFL. It is a podcast based platform and again, it's reaching a completely new audience and may not be as broad based as, you know, a Google or a YouTube, but it's still important for us 'cause we're reaching that fan base. So it's a balance of reach, very, very targeted, but just making sure that we are offering the content and distributing it out there to, you know, every corner of the fan base as I call it.

Damian Fowler: (12:22)

What kind of market research do you do to stay ahead of where fans are moving and the kind of things that they want to engage with and how that is evolving? Yeah,

Marissa Solis: (12:29)

We're very, very engaged in research 24 7, 3, 6 5. The very basic, you know, we do keep a pulse on how the league is doing with fans. We know perception, uh, we measure certain attributes, you know, are we inclusive, are we fun, are we engaging? And we measure them across all those audiences. And that is ongoing, right? In terms of culture, I wish I could tell you the, the formula, there really isn't one. It really is about having a very engaged team. As I mentioned, we have an incredible social and influencer team led by Ian Trombetta, which I gotta give them a shout out. They are incredible. They're in the culture and they hear things and they observe and they do a lot of social listening. And when something like Taylor Swift showing up to the game happens, even though we didn't know about it, they're on it immediately. And I think that's, that's where the success comes from. Where

Damian Fowler: (13:22)

Do you find inspiration in, in what's going on in the larger culture?

Marissa Solis: (13:26)

We like the balance of timeless and timely. You've gotta keep these timeless essence about you that creates your brand, but you also have to be really timely, right? I'll also say what inspires me at our brands with purpose, because we aren't just about the game, we transcend the game. We're such a big platform, we wanna make an impact to communities everywhere and we bring people together. We can uplift, you know, underserved communities. So when I see brands like Patagonia doing things, they aren't for necessarily for the profit of it, they're for the good of the community and the world. Those things inspire me as well.

Damian Fowler: (14:04)

You have a great deal of responsibility. It's one of the most powerful brands. Do you feel that sense of responsibility

Marissa Solis: (14:09)

Every single day? There's so many eyes on the league, anything that happens is talked about. We don't control the players, we don't control. When Taylor shows up to a stadium, we, we don't control it. It is an incredible sense of responsibility to try to at least shape the culture so that, you know, the message is a positive one and we make a positive impact, not a negative impact. So that, that's a tough one. Now,

Ilyse Liffreing: (14:36)

Earlier this year you announced that NFL expanded its global markets program. Can you tell us a bit about that and then what the marketing opportunity looks like internationally for American football?

Marissa Solis: (14:48)

Super exciting. This is probably one of the things I'm most excited about, about the league. You know, arguably we're the biggest sports and entertainment entity in the us. Not so much in the world. When you look and see the power of FIFA and, and the power of Formula One, like we want to the number one sports and entertainment entity in the world. Now we've expanded, we have 21 of our clubs have signed international rights in all sorts of countries. So everywhere from Ireland, Africa, you know, Brazil, uh, Spain. And so in the very, very near future, you're gonna start to see more and more international games, more and more of our clubs playing in the global arena. And of course, I I have to mention the Olympics, right? We are now in the Olympics for LA 28, which we'll see, you know, both men and women participating in our sport for the first time across the world. I

Damian Fowler: (15:46)

Read that you were, you studied to be, uh, an an ambassador.

Marissa Solis: (15:50)

I did, I did.

Damian Fowler: (15:51)

So this is an interesting, you know, turn of events for you.

Marissa Solis: (15:54)

It is, um, it's very ironic in very much a way. I feel like an, I'm an ambassador to the fan base and different communities. So it's been fun. Yeah,

Damian Fowler: (16:03)

I mean the NFL in a way it's a state unto itself.

Marissa Solis: (16:06)

You could say that. Yes, .

Ilyse Liffreing: (16:07)

Now the NFL is arguably the most sought after brand to partner and align advertising with, but it's also very seasonal. So how do you maintain engagement and relevance in the off season?

Marissa Solis: (16:18)

You know, it's funny you say that. It's absolutely not seasonal. We are 365 year round. I actually saw that come to life this year. We just got statistics back during the quote unquote off season in the month of June. We had over 200 million hours of content consumed. We were, I think the third league. And that's without any games or anything like that. So I think annually the stat is we're 45% of the sports conversation and only 2% of the games played in the us. That's a US number. And it's incredible, right? Because in the off season people are talking about the free agents who's gonna sign on what team, and then you get content like the quarterback series on Netflix. And now we've got partnerships with like, we have a partnership with Skydance to create stories and movies. Then you come have back together Saturday and training camps and then you have the preseason. So there actually really isn't an an off season anymore. I'm

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:18)

Sure that's changing with streaming too. 'cause you can just go

Marissa Solis: (17:21)

On content. Content is king, right? Content everywhere.

Ilyse Liffreing: (17:58)

One final question. In your view, what does the NFL look like in 2030?

Marissa Solis: (18:05)

I mean, I think, you know, the vision is that we are the pinnacle of entertainment around the world. And so that means amazing live sports, unpredictable seasons, right? Just like we have today. The game played in every country, and not just professionally on tv, but every country participating in the game of flag football, more Olympics, Netflix, or in the movie theaters, or much more storytelling around the incredible stories that this league represents. More diversity in the game, more diversity in the front office, in the coaching staff. So all, all good things, hopefully lots of impact.

Damian Fowler: (18:49)

And that's it for the current podcast. We'll be taking a break next week to celebrate Thanksgiving here in the us. But we'll be back at the end of the month with our guest, Jonathan Stringfield, the VP of Global Research and Marketing at Activision Blizzard

Jonathan Stringfield:

Gaming is increasingly going to be a hobby that is divorced from gaming devices virtually anywhere that there is a screen that's smart, there's probably gonna be an opportunity to play a game. 

Ilyse Liffreing: (19:02)

And if you love this podcast, be sure to subscribe and leave a review While you're at it. Check out our other show, the current report, our weekly roundup of what's happening in the world of digital media. The current podcast is produced by Wonder Media Network. Our theme is by Loving Caliber. The current team includes Chris Brooklier and Kat Vesce.

Damian Fowler: (19:31)

And remember,

Marissa Solis: (19:32)

We aren't just about the game. We transcend the game. We're such a big platform. We wanna make an impact to communities everywhere.

Damian Fowler: (19:39)

I'm Damian

Ilyse Liffreing: (19:40)

And I'm Ilyse.

Damian Fowler: (19:41)

And we'll see you next time.

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